Using barricades as support

[Matt in TN]

When I learned precision rifle shooting many years ago, it was a steadfast rule to NOT rest your rifle on any hard surface directly as the recoil would bounce the rifle unpredictably. If support was to be used, you'd always place something soft (a bag, or even your hand, etc.) between the rifle and the support to minimize this effect.

But at 3-gun matches I see people setting their rifle handguard directly on hard support all the time. I haven't done any formal studies, but it seems to be working for them. Is that because:

1. My data is outdated and incorrect, and resting on hard surfaces is fine

2. Comped .223's don't recoil enough for this to matter

3. Free floated handguards mitigate the issue

4. 2 & 3 together

5. Targets in 3-gun are so huge precision doesn't matter

Thanks for you help!

[TonytheTiger]

I'm gonna go with #5. I've tested the theory by shooting groups rested on hard surfaces, it makes a difference in group size at 100yds. Even when shooting off a VTAC or 3GN barricade I will still always try to wrap my thumb and index finger around the HG and let the other fingers brace on the barricade so there is still some shock absorption and bounce mitigation.

[Daft]

1,2,3

[StealthyBlagga]

6. Breathing too hard for it to make a difference

[Matt in TN]

So far we have 1,2,3,5, and 6 - this clears it up perfectly! ;-)

So do you think it's a bad idea with my non-free-floated FAL? I've tried it a few times and it sucks - but maybe I just need to practice more.

Or maybe I need to practice position shooting more and forget about the stupid barricade...

[Gunnar]

It can also vary by how hard you are resting it. However, I don't agree with #5 entirely as I have been seeing more long distance targets that are not that much bigger and pressing down on the barrel can make all the difference in those shots.

[wgj3]

With the FAL, you have a good deal more recoil and likely not nearly as great a comp. Also, you mentioned that the barrel is not "free-floated", so that can affect accuracy.

I always cringe a little for the shooters with shorter handguards at carbine matches that end up with their barrel or gas block touching a rigid "rest".

[bushmeat]

Willing to bet you'll hit more with the FAL resting on a barricade than not.

[openclassterror]

Free-float handguard is the main reason the hard barricade isn't hurting competitors. Rest the barrel on the top of said barricade and groups go to hell in a hurry. Sweeny did a "Mythbusters" type test on this in one of his books, and resting the barrel (or handguard if not floated) on a hard object gave significant (2"high at 25yd if memory serves) POI movement, though group size varied much less than group shift. So, in my opinion:

1) not true, factual evidence contradicts. your original learning was correct.

2)Sweeny's tests were with ARs, so lack of recoil does not negate answer to (1)

3) Yes

4) 2 and 3 are separate issues

5) Depends on match, but doing something you KNOW reduces your potential inherent accuracy is never good no matter how big the targets.

In your situation, best solution would be prone next to barricade, or a hold (as described in one of the above posts) where your hand isolates the gun from the prop.

[Moltke]

1 & 3. Recoil is irrelevant to the bullet, it only matters to the shooter. And FF rails take the torque out instead of barrels.

By the time the gun recoils the bullet has left the barrel and no amount of muzzle jump is going to affect a bullet already in flight. If a FF rail is resting on or even pinned against a barricade, then as long as the barrel is not taking the stress then the bullet will go where your zero tells you it will go. Assuming perfect sight alignment and trigger control of course. The reason hard surfaces are not ideal for precision isn't because of recoil jumping rifle after the shot, its because its harder to get the rifle perfectly steady before the shot. If the rifle jumps more during recoil it can upset the shooter's followthrough more than if the gun was pressed into bags, over the course of several shots this can even lead to anticipation of recoil which will certainly affect accuracy. If you are going to test this then make sure to get the rifle into a corner of the barricade so it truly doesn't move, and use a rear bag setup to take as much of the shooter out of the equation as possible.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Moltke

[TonytheTiger]

I guess I should mention that my testing was done by just resting the gun on the surface and just barely touching the grip to fire it, like how a benchrest shooter barely touches the gun. The HG bounced and accuracy suffered. I wasn't implying that resting a free floated HG on a barricade while keeping a firm hold on the gun and not allowing it to rattle around would still cause issues.

[dcloudy777]

I'd say that given a properly free-floated handguard, the "error increase" induced by directly resting said handguard against a solid object will be much less than the "error decrease" induced by getting a good solid shooting position.

Benchrest-level precision just isn't needed in 3-gun... or in much of any sort of shooting outside of benchrest, really.

[TonytheTiger]

I'd say that given a properly free-floated handguard, the "error increase" induced by directly resting said handguard against a solid object will be much less than the "error decrease" induced by getting a good solid shooting position.

Benchrest-level precision just isn't needed in 3-gun... or in much of any sort of shooting outside of benchrest, really.

I agree, hence why I picked #5. The targets are big enough that you need a decent position a lot more than extreme accuracy, and that's why we can all get away with things that have slight negative influence on our guns mechanical accuracy.

[e5gator]

6. Three gunners use the forward hand to vise clamp the handguard down so hard that there is no way it can move also look for a corner of a barricade you can wedge your handguard into to help even more