My first DQ

[IHAVEGAS]

Interesting lesson.

Sometimes there is not a good way to avoid reloading while moving toward your weak hand side, or moving backwards and toward your weak hand side.

One way to stay good on the 180 is to cock your wrist back toward your strong hand side while doing the reload. You can move the gun through about 120 degrees depending on how you hold your wrist.

If you are moving parallel to the 180 then the r.o. probably has a clear view of your hand and all is good.

If you are moving both backwards and to your weak side, the r.o. should be standing on your strong hand side and a little bit up range. As you begin the reload, your body soon blocks the r.o.'s view of your gun and wrist and forearm. Odds are that any spectators will also be positioned where they lose sight of everything except your back and the back of your arm during the reload. If the r.o. believes you held your wrist straight then it looks very spooky in real time, as if you had broken the 180 by 30 degrees or something, spectators in a similar viewing position will also see something in real time that they think was very spooky.

I think my lesson is that next time I either show the r.o. what I plan to do in advance or take a little bit more time and change my orientation so that he has a clear view of my hand during the reload.

Edited November 12, 2015 by IHAVEGAS

[bret]

Weekly match. Shot my BUG gun for practice for upcoming S&W BUG nationals .

Long story short , on reload I've knocked my gun out of my right hand with the magazine in my left. Gun on the ground , DQ'd , packed my crap and left before they'd have chance to pick on me. Lol

Why leave?

Why not stick around and help your squad?

[MacLethal]

My first DQ was at a match I drove an hour and a half for, second stage in on the last two shots.. My mag wasn't loaded all of the way and when I reloaded I broke the damn 180 barely. I wasn't perpendicular to the bay so I realized what I did immediately.. I was so pissed. It was a long and quiet drive home..

[Nimitz]

Got my first. leaned through a port to shoot down range. as I pulled back out and started heading down range my muzzle caught the port wall. RO didn't even call it. Someone behind him did as his angle was bad. RO wasn't sure so I asked the two dudes who saw it and they both said yea just barely but past 180.

I was 8 shots in to the match and ended up ROing the rest of the day.

Well, got that over with.

Guess it's therapeutic to vent!

Maybe you earned a dq and maybe you didn't, I was in the same situation and got a 180 call from the cheap seats that turned out to be close but only that when I saw it on video later. People tend to panic when you start taking 95% of the 180 degrees that you own and tend to call 160's .

After review my take aways were;

Work more on never getting too close to the 180

If you are not running the shooter or the timer then there is no reason for you to try and make borderline calls from the sidelines

If you are the shooter and the r.o. didn't call it and there is any doubt then just keep shooting and enjoy the match.

I generally never get close to 180s (I've scratched 180 markers in dirt so I know where I can post up if need to) ......

This is illegal according to our rules .....

[Nimitz]

Got my first. leaned through a port to shoot down range. as I pulled back out and started heading down range my muzzle caught the port wall. RO didn't even call it. Someone behind him did as his angle was bad. RO wasn't sure so I asked the two dudes who saw it and they both said yea just barely but past 180.

I was 8 shots in to the match and ended up ROing the rest of the day.

Well, got that over with.

Guess it's therapeutic to vent!

Maybe you earned a dq and maybe you didn't, I was in the same situation and got a 180 call from the cheap seats that turned out to be close but only that when I saw it on video later. People tend to panic when you start taking 95% of the 180 degrees that you own and tend to call 160's .

After review my take aways were;

Work more on never getting too close to the 180

If you are not running the shooter or the timer then there is no reason for you to try and make borderline calls from the sidelines

If you are the shooter and the r.o. didn't call it and there is any doubt then just keep shooting and enjoy the match.

I generally never get close to 180s (I've scratched 180 markers in dirt so I know where I can post up if need to) ......

This is illegal according to our rules .....

[ktm300]

I was not the RO I was just watching another guy on the squad run a stage. After a few targets through a port that was perpendicular to the back of the bay he pulled out and started to turn the wrong way. My STOP reflex fired and he stopped before he swept the whole squad. There was no thought about yelling stop, it just happened. Lucky enough my STOP reflex is pretty good.

[tarosean]

Why leave?

Why not stick around and help your squad?

I did that on my only DQ, only cause I drove there with another competitor.

Oh and my only DQ was getting my sight picture right before the Load and Make Ready command..

[teros135]

Interesting lesson.

Sometimes there is not a good way to avoid reloading while moving toward your weak hand side, or moving backwards and toward your weak hand side.

One way to stay good on the 180 is to cock your wrist back toward your strong hand side while doing the reload. You can move the gun through about 120 degrees depending on how you hold your wrist.

If you are moving parallel to the 180 then the r.o. probably has a clear view of your hand and all is good.

If you are moving both backwards and to your weak side, the r.o. should be standing on your strong hand side and a little bit up range. As you begin the reload, your body soon blocks the r.o.'s view of your gun and wrist and forearm. Odds are that any spectators will also be positioned where they lose sight of everything except your back and the back of your arm during the reload. If the r.o. believes you held your wrist straight then it looks very spooky in real time, as if you had broken the 180 by 30 degrees or something, spectators in a similar viewing position will also see something in real time that they think was very spooky.

I think my lesson is that next time I either show the r.o. what I plan to do in advance or take a little bit more time and change my orientation so that he has a clear view of my hand during the reload.

Actually, all of the movements you've mentioned are a normal part of our skill set (and, of course, are practiced regularly). Qualified ROs should know this, and we shouldn't have to tell them what direction we're going to go or orient ourselves in some particular way in order for them to see what we're doing. If the RO can't see what you did, they can't/shouldn't call a fault, and if they do it's clearly an arbitration situation. At any rate, if we're doing it right there shouldn't be a call on us, because we're doing it safely and aren't "right at the 180" while moving backwards, or toward the weak side, or whatever. Just sayin'...

[IHAVEGAS]

Interesting lesson.

Sometimes there is not a good way to avoid reloading while moving toward your weak hand side, or moving backwards and toward your weak hand side.

One way to stay good on the 180 is to cock your wrist back toward your strong hand side while doing the reload. You can move the gun through about 120 degrees depending on how you hold your wrist.

If you are moving parallel to the 180 then the r.o. probably has a clear view of your hand and all is good.

If you are moving both backwards and to your weak side, the r.o. should be standing on your strong hand side and a little bit up range. As you begin the reload, your body soon blocks the r.o.'s view of your gun and wrist and forearm. Odds are that any spectators will also be positioned where they lose sight of everything except your back and the back of your arm during the reload. If the r.o. believes you held your wrist straight then it looks very spooky in real time, as if you had broken the 180 by 30 degrees or something, spectators in a similar viewing position will also see something in real time that they think was very spooky.

I think my lesson is that next time I either show the r.o. what I plan to do in advance or take a little bit more time and change my orientation so that he has a clear view of my hand during the reload.

Actually, all of the movements you've mentioned are a normal part of our skill set (and, of course, are practiced regularly). Qualified ROs should know this, and we shouldn't have to tell them what direction we're going to go or orient ourselves in some particular way in order for them to see what we're doing. If the RO can't see what you did, they can't/shouldn't call a fault, and if they do it's clearly an arbitration situation. At any rate, if we're doing it right there shouldn't be a call on us, because we're doing it safely and aren't "right at the 180" while moving backwards, or toward the weak side, or whatever. Just sayin'...

I think you are correct on every point.

But, for local matches it can be challenging to put at least two experienced R.O.'s on every squad (in order to prevent brain death and allow R.O. #1 opportunity for his own shooting & etc.), and even the best of us can make a mistake in the moment.

I will probably error on the side of needless communication, just in case, but that is just me.

Side bar, I am going to R.O. class this spring. It is painful, 1.5 days of classroom + travel & lodging + 1/2 day range time + course and material fees + it is a similar pita for the club that puts the course on. Seems like a stone age way to do things (computer instruction for college level courses has been going on since the 1980's).

[RPatton]

Interesting lesson.

Sometimes there is not a good way to avoid reloading while moving toward your weak hand side, or moving backwards and toward your weak hand side.

One way to stay good on the 180 is to cock your wrist back toward your strong hand side while doing the reload. You can move the gun through about 120 degrees depending on how you hold your wrist.

If you are moving parallel to the 180 then the r.o. probably has a clear view of your hand and all is good.

If you are moving both backwards and to your weak side, the r.o. should be standing on your strong hand side and a little bit up range. As you begin the reload, your body soon blocks the r.o.'s view of your gun and wrist and forearm. Odds are that any spectators will also be positioned where they lose sight of everything except your back and the back of your arm during the reload. If the r.o. believes you held your wrist straight then it looks very spooky in real time, as if you had broken the 180 by 30 degrees or something, spectators in a similar viewing position will also see something in real time that they think was very spooky.

I think my lesson is that next time I either show the r.o. what I plan to do in advance or take a little bit more time and change my orientation so that he has a clear view of my hand during the reload.

Actually, all of the movements you've mentioned are a normal part of our skill set (and, of course, are practiced regularly). Qualified ROs should know this, and we shouldn't have to tell them what direction we're going to go or orient ourselves in some particular way in order for them to see what we're doing. If the RO can't see what you did, they can't/shouldn't call a fault, and if they do it's clearly an arbitration situation. At any rate, if we're doing it right there shouldn't be a call on us, because we're doing it safely and aren't "right at the 180" while moving backwards, or toward the weak side, or whatever. Just sayin'...

The vast majority of stages that have movement parallel to the 180 are set up for right handed shooters. Lefties learn to deal with it quickly. When I set up stages I always set them up for me and I am left handed.

If others didn't like it, they always had the option of coming out and setting up stages the way they wanted. Help was always appreciated.

[427Cobra]

I torched a round off during a reload at my first USPSA match, instant DQ, unloaded and showed cleared, took my gear off and I stayed ran the iPad, I was beyond embarrassed, but I owned it.

[RPatton]

I torched a round off during a reload at my first USPSA match, instant DQ, unloaded and showed cleared, took my gear off and I stayed ran the iPad, I was beyond embarrassed, but I owned it.

But after that, you knew exactly what you needed to work on.

Bad experience is always the best teacher. Have you ever had another AD while reloading?

[IHAVEGAS]

but I owned it.

Nice job then !!

I saw this happen to a good friend that I practice with. On a normal reload he looks the mag into the gun, during the unfortunate occurrence it appeared to me that he was looking up toward his next target rather than giving normal attention to the reload. He owned that one also and I was proud of him, sounds strange, but when you see a buddy suck it up and act like an adult it is a proud thing.

Edited January 1, 2016 by IHAVEGAS

[427Cobra]

I have not shot a match since(October), due to foot surgery, the move from Glock to 1911 hasn't been easy, I wasn't use to a thumb safety, or a grip safety, I have learned to grip the weapon so the grip safety is GTG, but the thumb safety is whole other issue, during transitions safety on, but during reloads I was and still am not used to putting the safety on, I also realize my trigger finger was the real issue, I discovered I may need to swap grips(MagPul) and put a extended drilled and tapped mag release so I don't have to reposition my hand to release the mag, now that I can stand without crutches dry fire has begun, working on reloads.

[bret]

I have not shot a match since(October), due to foot surgery, the move from Glock to 1911 hasn't been easy, I wasn't use to a thumb safety, or a grip safety, I have learned to grip the weapon so the grip safety is GTG, but the thumb safety is whole other issue, during transitions safety on, but during reloads I was and still am not used to putting the safety on, I also realize my trigger finger was the real issue, I discovered I may need to swap grips(MagPul) and put a extended drilled and tapped mag release so I don't have to reposition my hand to release the mag, now that I can stand without crutches dry fire has begun, working on reloads.

You don't have to put the safety on during transitions or reloads, your finger must be visibly outside of the trigger guard when moving unless you are engaging a target.

Your finger must be visibly outside the trigger guard during a reload unless you are on target.

Even if you put the safety on, you can't move with your finger in the trigger guard or reload it finger in the trigger guard.

[elftech86]

Just had my first DQ the other night. Reloading on the move and somehow managed to touch the trigger. I have a 2lb trigger too, been shooting with it for several months and haven't had an issue. Weird thing is the oversize button on my mag catch was gone when I went to unload and show clear. I'm thinking that might have changed the geometry of the gun in my hand when I was doing my reload. Not sure but definitely learned a lesson on trigger finger placement.

Welcome to the DQ club.

Such lessons learned are not so easily forgotten (hopefully).

With any luck everyone there learned the same lesson as you have served as an example of what NOT to do.

I too have learned from the mistakes of others.

I have also provided examples of what NOT to do for others.

There are 4 kinds of competitive shooters:

Those that have been DQed.

Those that have not.

Those that will be.

Those that should have been.

Amen to that.

[Posvar]

I had my first and only DQ so far last October at the very beginning of a match. First stage, loaded my shadow and went to decock it and BAM! I've learned since then a few better methods to decock it. Scared me to death and tore up my finger pretty bad. All that my buddies saw was blood all over and me getting in my car to leave. Thankfully the round went down range into the berm safely. It shook me up for a few months.

[High Lord Gomer]

Side bar, I am going to R.O. class this spring. It is painful, 1.5 days of classroom + travel & lodging + 1/2 day range time + course and material fees + it is a similar pita for the club that puts the course on. Seems like a stone age way to do things (computer instruction for college level courses has been going on since the 1980's).

I'd be willing to bet you say differently afterwards. It will likely be one of your best weekends of the year. You will learn more than you expected and likely make a few friends during the process.

[IHAVEGAS]

It will likely be one of your best weekends of the year.

I know you mean well, but man that just really sounds depressing.

If it was my one weekend out of the nursing home or something I could see it.

[teros135]

Then don't do it. One should never do anything one feels compelled to complain so bitterly about. It's way too sad.

[IHAVEGAS]

Then don't do it. One should never do anything one feels compelled to complain so bitterly about. It's way too sad.

Really meant more to point out the opportunity for improvement, and I think there is a significant opportunity (and we do have a new president so there is a chance some things could get an unbiased review) , than to feign bitterness. In my area of the country it is always difficult to find a sufficient number of s.o.'s / r.o.'s to share the load so I see updating the training means as a very good thing for the sport in general as well as for the individual.

That said, if attending a training class, any training class, ranks near the best time you have all year, yeck that is not happy happy.

[TB949]

I have not shot a match since(October), due to foot surgery, the move from Glock to 1911 hasn't been easy, I wasn't use to a thumb safety, or a grip safety, I have learned to grip the weapon so the grip safety is GTG, but the thumb safety is whole other issue, during transitions safety on, but during reloads I was and still am not used to putting the safety on, I also realize my trigger finger was the real issue, I discovered I may need to swap grips(MagPul) and put a extended drilled and tapped mag release so I don't have to reposition my hand to release the mag, now that I can stand without crutches dry fire has begun, working on reloads.

If you cant reach mag release with strong hand do it with your support thumb on your way to the belt.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RPatton]

I

I have not shot a match since(October), due to foot surgery, the move from Glock to 1911 hasn't been easy, I wasn't use to a thumb safety, or a grip safety, I have learned to grip the weapon so the grip safety is GTG, but the thumb safety is whole other issue, during transitions safety on, but during reloads I was and still am not used to putting the safety on, I also realize my trigger finger was the real issue, I discovered I may need to swap grips(MagPul) and put a extended drilled and tapped mag release so I don't have to reposition my hand to release the mag, now that I can stand without crutches dry fire has begun, working on reloads.

If your finger isn't in the trigger guard there should be no reason to put the safety on during a reload. If you have to rely on the safety to prevent an AD during reloading then you either have your finger in the trigger guard and on the trigger or the sear is releasing the hammer when you insert the mag. Both these conditions are problems, the former is yours and the latter is mechanical. Unfortunately you own both if the hammer falls.

I've never put the safety on during a reload and I ride the safety from start to finish. The only exceptions would be if I have a long run between targets or if I start to fall(mostly shooting 3gun on natural terrain) I have engaged the safety. Other than that the safety is off from the time the muzzle is pointed downrange until I'm done with the pistol on that stage.

But do whatever makes YOU comfortable.

[teros135]

RPatton is right. For most of us the mechanical safety is used only when the gun is holstered (for those brief moments between Make Ready and "beep"), and unless there's an unusual situation that needs it the safety is a thumb rest. The "safety" here is in our training and discipline to keep the finger out of the trigger guard, unless engaging targets, per the safety rules in Chapter 10 of the rule book.

Think about it - with the striker guns there's no external safety lever, and I hope to high heavens that the operators are keeping their finger where it belongs, because they'll go off if the finger gets on the trigger. (The ROs are looking for that, BTW.)

Edited January 18, 2016 by teros135

[bret]

RPatton is right. For most of us the mechanical safety is used only when the gun is holstered (for those brief moments between Make Ready and "beep"), and unless there's an unusual situation that needs it the safety is a thumb rest. The "safety" here is in our training and discipline to keep the finger out of the trigger guard, unless engaging targets, per the safety rules in Chapter 10 of the rule book.

Think about it - with the striker guns there's no external safety lever, and I hope to high heavens that the operators are keeping their finger where it belongs, because they'll go off if the finger gets on the trigger. (The ROs are looking for that, BTW.)

The finger must be visibly outside of the trigger guard while, reloading, clearing a malfunction, not engaging a target, if you are moving and not engaging a target your finger must be visibly outside of the trigger guard.

Even if you put the gun on safety, in the above conditions your finger must be visibly outside of the trigger guard.

The Range Officer on the timer is focused on the gun, the second Range Officer is looking also.

More people should be DQ'd for it, but it's one if those things that people sometimes get away with and really shouldn't.