First time reloader, likely stupid questions, help please

[Southpaw]

Dillon case lube acquired; it's helpful living a few miles from Dillon . Also picked up a pound of Power Pistol so have more options to experiment with.

[Southpaw]

Do y'all clean off the case lube after loading? Dillon suggested tumbling the completed rounds for just a few minutes to clean off the lube. I feel a bit hesitant to put live rounds in a tumbler, but not sure if that's really a concern. Or I could just wipe them down with a rag.

[kneelingatlas]

I tumble all my 9 major after loading

[Beastly]

I would be more interested in bullet grouping/accuracy than extreme spread. One can assume that lower ES means better accuracy but it may or may not be so.

You don't have to clean OneShot.

Fine tuning velocity with OAL is fine, you can shorten 9mm quite a bit and it will probably run just fine. Accuracy should be retested.

Accuracy and a heavy crimp on a FCD MIGHT be mutually exclusive. Are you using the FCD to minimally crimp or with a heavy crimp to try to squash springy brass and non-springy lead into a shape that better fits your case gauge and damn the impact on accuracy???

[BeerBaron]

Thanks BeerBaron. The Gem 20 is actually the scale I'm using. It seems to work quite well so far, except I wish it didn't auto shutoff so quickly.

That's interesting to hear about a higher chance of over-pressure even with 9mm minor. I think I might have bought into the idea that faster powder is better for softer shooting a bit too much and maybe should have started with something a bit slower. All I have right now is WST and N320, haven't tried loading the N320 yet. So you said for example that N320 with a 147gr flattens primers for you, but do you still use that load anyway? And by that I'm saying I don't know much about what to be concerned about with over-pressure, should I immediately stop using a load if I see the slightest signs, etc.?

I'm pretty sure I have the sizing die and FCD all the way down. After I loaded a few rounds I noticed that there was the tiniest bit of gap, due to the slight vertical play in the turret, so I screwed them in further, but I'll triple check before loading more.

It's nothing to be super worried about. Just need to be aware that the combo of fast powders and heavy bullets is a higher pressure load.

Monitor pressure signs like burnt cases, unburned powder and flat primers or primer flow or primer cratering.

My n320 load with 135gn rn shows some flattening of federal primers but they are very soft primers. The load is still perfectly safe to shoot but it's sonething to keep an eye on, that's all.

[biglou13]

I have seen other threads where everyone was saying don't get too worked up with trying to get a super low std deviation, but I'm not sure at what point you'd say that it is too high and needs to be addressed...

again if i was doing testing with your method... i'd be inclined towards the data with lower ES/SD then i'd shoot for groups.... then compare grouping to data

youll eventually see diminishing returns in your data. oh high and low side ..... and you'll start to see what range is acceptable for given powder and bullet. but again larger sample size and larger range of powder

+1 what sarge said on batteries... don't get cheap ones... get the good top of the line batteries.

it makes calculations a bit more difficult but when you chrono

try shooting

one bullet 3.5 grn wait 10 sec then 3.8 wait then 4.1 wait then 4.4 wait. lather rinse repeat.

this way it spreads potential error from fouling chamber temp etc etc etc

the recompile the info on spread sheet later.

[BeerBaron]

I paid 40 shipped for my rcbs from amazon so I didn't think I was in high dollar territory yet.

As far as case gauge goes maybe the local stores to me had flukes but egw specifically would pass rounds that failed in mY dillon. I tried the two brands along with rcbs when diagnosing a reloading issue back when I first started reloading so I respectfully disagree.

My bad on the rcbs scale. The one I thougt you were referring to I thought was $100+.

As far as the case gauges go my experience is consistent with the few others I've polled but I agree that's still a woefully small sample and I could well have uncharacteristically tight egw as you could have a tight dillon. I think we both agree the gauge that really matters is the chamber the rounds will be shot from.

[BeerBaron]

Russel. N320 is a great if not the best powder for 9mm minor loads. Many love it with 147s. I personally never loved the heavy pills and preferred stuff in the 125-135gn range but every shooter and every gun is different.

[Ray_Z]

Not real tickled to death with your powder choice. After looking at your crono work it looks like the closer you get to minor power factor the worse your spread gets. Also, in the brass you showed I saw 3 pieces of glocked brass. I do have brass guages to check my brass but I prefer use the barrel out of my gun. Once after I size the brass then again after I compleat the reloading cycle. If it don't fit after sizing it goes in the round file. If it don't fit after it's loaded, it gets pulled. Hell, I'm not good enough to make it near the top of the match now. I certanly don't want my reloads kicking me down the ladder of sucess.

[Southpaw]

Thanks all for the replies! This is all incredibly helpful!!

I would be more interested in bullet grouping/accuracy than extreme spread. One can assume that lower ES means better accuracy but it may or may not be so.

You don't have to clean OneShot.

Fine tuning velocity with OAL is fine, you can shorten 9mm quite a bit and it will probably run just fine. Accuracy should be retested.

Accuracy and a heavy crimp on a FCD MIGHT be mutually exclusive. Are you using the FCD to minimally crimp or with a heavy crimp to try to squash springy brass and non-springy lead into a shape that better fits your case gauge and damn the impact on accuracy???

Hopefully I can get to the range this weekend to test accuracy and chrono some more loads. Didn't have a chance to test accuracy yet, just ran those 30 through after a match on Sunday.

I'm just learning how to use these dies so any tips on proper adjustments would be much appreciated. All I had to go by on the FCD was the instructions which said half a turn for a light crimp and a full turn for a heavy crimp. I believe I did a bit past half a turn; I'm going to try lightening the crimp on the next batch.

+1 what sarge said on batteries... don't get cheap ones... get the good top of the line batteries.

it makes calculations a bit more difficult but when you chrono

try shooting

one bullet 3.5 grn wait 10 sec then 3.8 wait then 4.1 wait then 4.4 wait. lather rinse repeat.

this way it spreads potential error from fouling chamber temp etc etc etc

the recompile the info on spread sheet later.

I've seen quite a few comments on the batteries now, just how much of a battery hog is the Pro Chrono Digital? I thought the instructions said it'll get about 20 hours? I did put a spare battery in the space for one.

That's an interesting tip on staggering the loads for the chrono, thanks!

I tumble all my 9 major after loading

Thanks, I figured it must be ok or they wouldn't have suggested it; it just seems a little strange to me so wanted to be sure

Russel. N320 is a great if not the best powder for 9mm minor loads. Many love it with 147s. I personally never loved the heavy pills and preferred stuff in the 125-135gn range but every shooter and every gun is different.

I'm not married to using 147gr. I just started with that since it seems a lot of people love them. I'll try 124, 135, and 147 and see which I prefer. I do have some Xtreme plated 124gr that I'll try as well.

The difference between those 147gr loads I tested and factory CCI Blazers was amazing. I always thought 9mm through a 1911 was really soft, but compared to my reloads that factory 115gr felt down right snappy

Not real tickled to death with your powder choice. After looking at your crono work it looks like the closer you get to minor power factor the worse your spread gets.

Yeah while I was accumulating all the reloading supplies and had no powder a friend recommended WST and it was in stock so I picked up 8lbs. of it. Then after ordering I realized he was using it for .40 major. Looking through past threads I saw mixed opinions on WST for 9mm. But even if I decide not to use it for 9mm I also shoot .40 so it'll get put to use.

[Sarge]

Thanks. I will try to get back to the range this weekend for some more chronoing. Will also test accuracy, didn't have a chance to do that yet.

Save ammo and time by placing a target down range that you shoot through the chrono. I use a paper plate with a black spot in the middle about 20 yards out. This shows you accuracy potential and gives you an aiming point so you don't get in a rush and shoot the Chrono.

[seanc]

I didn't read all the responses but will say, I had purchased a large amount of range brass that had obviously been shot at major, glocked, etc..

Loading with the dillon dies, these had about 4% failure on case gauge.

I switched to an EGW U-die. The die sizes the brass .001 smaller and more importantly it sizes very close to full length.

After switching to this die I have had *zero* case gauge failures loading 147 and 160 bayous, 147 extremes, 124 extremes, etc...

http://www.egwguns.com/index.php?p=product&id=838

I am told the RCBS die provides the same sizing effect, but the EGW is the one I have direct experience with. highly recommended....

[Southpaw]

Ok, what the heck am I doing wrong? Tried loading some more tonight. Used different brass, CCI Blazer, and different bullets, coated flat point 147gr, and am still getting case gauge failures. The rounds pass the plunk test in both Glock and Trojan barrels, which I know is what's most important, but if I'm loading these right shouldn't they also pass the case gauge???

I measured the different spots on the case and I'm getting .377" right at the top of the case, .380" in the middle and .388" right above the extractor grove. Compared to a factory round that passes the case gauge the only difference I'm seeing is the factory round was .375" right below the bullet.

I tried increasing crimp on the FCD and that did nothing to help it pass the case gauge. It also didn't seem to change any of the case dimensions at all besides the very edge of the case got squeezed into the bullet.

The brass will pass the case gauge right after sizing before seating a bullet. I'm certain the sizing die and FCD are fully down touching the shell holder.

I backed the seating die pretty far out since I thought I should make sure it's not crimping at all and only crimp with the FCD, but should I bring the seating die down to do some crimping?

Also, how much should I bell the case. It seems like I only need a very minimal bell to get the bullet started, I was belling to .384", is that right?

And how many whacks on a bullet puller should it take to get a bullet out? I tried pulling one of the FMJ bullets that I loaded with the FCD only turned around 1/2 turn and it took at least 10 solid whacks, that sound right?

I have no idea what I'm doing wrong

[TDA]

try coating some of your fail to plunk/. gauge bullets with sharpie.... insert a few times, the sharpie will wear at contact point...... just another tool in your diagnostic arsenal......

[kneelingatlas]

You shouldn't be using the crimp die in an attempt to fit the case gauge, you only want to take the bell out. The reason you're not getting the rounds into the case gauge is the oal. Your bullets have a long shoulder, I wouldn't be surprised if you have to seat to 1.050 to get them to pass the EGW gauge.

It's not a "right/wrong" issue, it's a matter of making ammo which works in the chamber you want to fire it through. The gauge is obviously tighter than your barrels, how far undersized do you want to go?

[Beastly]

Are the bullets seated squarely? Are they bulging more at the bullet shoulder on one side than the other? Hornady seating die with floating sleeve might help.

Save the stuff that doesn't pass the case gauge for practice ammo.

Sort it into mild, medium and worst categories.

Shoot it.

Bet it all shoots just fine in the Glock, no experience with Trojan....

Easy 'fixes' - assuming it even needs fixing: Bullet weight, profile, OAL. U-Die. Stop trying to fix CG issues with FCD, fo back to taper crimp.

[TANFARM]

My 2 cents...I asked the same question about the debris you showed in the empty case...I cleaned a batch from the range and was surprised to see this "waxy" substance inside the shell....I actually,cleaned them again to no avail. One of our brilliant members told me its sealant used on some ammo to act as a waterproofer.....asked and answered.

I load 147 Xtreme HP ove 3.4 grns of Vih. N320 in my edge....very, very happy.

I use one of the 100 round case gauges and test EVERY round I load......I've found the every once in awhile I will get a group of range brass that is a really tight fit in the gauge and then load 500 that ore ok...I have attributed it to the downside of using range brass to reload...I have no choice until I get enough to start recycling the ones I have ....hope,this makes sense!!!?.lol

[Steve RA]

Use your barrel, put the gauge away. Unless you have found a way to shoot from the gauge.

[kneelingatlas]

Use your barrel, put the gauge away. Unless you have found a way to shoot from the gauge.

[Sarge]

To eliminate the obvious, if you pick the gauge up off the table does the round fit?

[Beastly]

I've got a case gauge reamer collecting dust if you are interested.

[seanc]

seriously, throw the FCD in the garbage.

as others are suggesting, does it fit your barrel?

The EGW U-die is magic IMO...

[Southpaw]

Thanks all for the replies. How do those case measurements sound to y'all? And the amount I'm belling? Since the empty brass passes the case gauge after sizing I guess it must be something with seating? But I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong there, maybe bell more to get the case started more before seating?

I don't think it's just OAL or bullet profile since I now tried a 2nd bullet with a more tapered profile (not as high an ogive than those FMJs).

So I realized I don't actually know what the FCD does differently than a regular taper crimp, how does it crimp differently? I will try loading some crimping with the seating die and see if that makes a difference.

I know fitting the chamber is what's most important, it just seems strange that I can't get any reloads to fit the gauge. And it doesn't seem to be out of spec since factory ammo does pass.

The brass should be all once fired brass shot by me. I sorted out all the Federal and Blazer brass since most of that is likely what I shot and not random range brass.

TDA, thanks for a reminder on the sharpie trick, forgot to try that. Will check when I get home tonight.

I don't know that the U die will help since it seems my sizing die is doing enough since empty brass passes the gauge after sizing, right?

Sarge, ha why didn't I think of that?!?!?! Problem solved!!!

[blackhand]

Others have ruled it out, but I use the EGW case gauge and found that it is very sensitive to OAL and bullet profile. All other things being equal, shortening the OAL fixed the issue with rounds not passing the EGW case gauge.

I use a Lee U-Die to size my 9mm brass. I bell my brass to .385" and taper crimp using a separate die to .376-.378. Any more crimp, and you run the risk of cutting the coating on coated lead bullets. I couldn't set up my seating die to seat and crimp at the same time without scraping the coating on coated lead bullets. After crimping, I run all my rounds through a Lee FCD with the crimping stem removed. This is just an added precaution to make sure my brass isn't bulged and is sized close to factory specs.

For 147 gr SNS coated, flat point bullets, 1.135 OAL loads will pass the EGW case gauge. I do have about 2-5 out of every 100 that don't pass the case gauge, but by a smaller margin than the examples you've shown, Russell. I'm going to shorten my OAL to 1.125 to 1.130 to make sure all the rounds pass.

Almost all the rounds that don't pass the EGW case gauge still pass the plunk test in my factory Glock barrels. However, I have rounds that pass the EGW case gauge that still won't pass the plunk test in my match barrels. So I end up testing all my rounds in the match barrel anyway.

[mpom]

OP, have you tried gauge testing resized primed cases, no powder or belling, just resized cases? If they pass the gauge test, then its not a resizing issue, but something else. Just a thought to steer you in the right direction.