Trumpet Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Okie dokie, So I've posted these questions over at SH, ARfcom, and MD shooters so if you've seen it there, feel free to move on. I thought I'd also post here for some different perspective. A little background; years ago I owned several Remington 700 PSS's...then I upgraded to a GAP rifle (cue the sound of the sunlight beaming through the clouds with angelic singing). Then, life happened...wife, house, kids...and the GAP had to go. So, fast forward and I'm ready to get a .308 bolt gun again....except NOT on a bachelor's budget. I'm not looking to compete (yet), and I only have access (for now)to a 200 yard range. So here are my considerations.... Remington 700 5R. IMO the best for the $ because if I went with an AAC model, I'd have to upgrade the stock too. With the 5R, I'd "only" have to change the trigger and bottom metal. $1100-$1200. Not including cost of scope base. Tikka CTR. I've heard nothing but great things about them. The stock is do-able, but I'd also consider selling the stock and bottom metal (same as TRG22) and putting it in a KRG X-ray. From what I've read, fantastic smooth actions, nice triggers. $1200-ish after X-ray. FN SPR A1. Same as Tikka, never heard a bad thing about them. Can get an A1 (although I REALLY want an A1A...$1600-$1700) for $1295. Already in bedded McMillan stock, with DBM (although it's FN proprietary). Comes with 20 MOA base (8-40). Not as smooth as Tikka, but good trigger too. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Remington is never the wrong choice. You can upgrade them any way you like, and aftermarket parts are plentiful. It is very accurate out of the box. Drop in a decent trigger and you're in business. The only down side to my M700 VS in .308 is the 1:12 twist and the long freebore. You can't load rounds anywhere near the lands with anything but the longest bullets and magazine length rounds have a huge jump. You also won't be able to shoot anything much heavier that 175's, but at the distances you'll be shooting 168 SMK's will do you proud. Don't know much about the Tikka or FN but a rifle that comes with a bedded McMillan stock and bottom metal would demand serious consideration. Tls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Tikka. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Klein Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 AAC-SD I know it is not the preferred starting point based on stock upgrade, BUT, it does have a 10 twist barrel from the factory. THAT is worth it's weight in gold. Buy an H-S Precision stock and trigger and you are set. Unless you want to run a DBM, then I would recommend against a stock with aluminum bedding block as you will have to cut into it to mount that DBM. What is the end-goal of the rifle? And does it HAVE to be a 308? There are a lot of variables on the table not yet considered. My number is in my signature, and I guide customers into what THEY want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 if you are only going to shoot 200 yards just get a 223 I can't recommend Robert Snyder enough this is a great rifle for the money http://www.rwsgunsmithing.com/catalog/base-custom-rifle/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I have a Tikka CTR in .260Remington, and the more I shoot it, the more impressed I am with it. Yup, smooth-as-snot action and good trigger. With it's 2-" barrel, it's an excellent mid-range gun, and a lot of rifle for the money, IMO. The mag is a 10-round Sako TRG mag, and my only gripe about the rifle is that extras are very pricey. A friend just dropped his into a KRG X-ray, but only in the last few days, so while he hasn't had a chance to shoot with it yet, he likes it so far. The target below isn't representative, of course, but I generally get 0.5MOA from my bone-stock CTR with my handloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlightMurse Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I would also suggest a .260 rem or 6.5 creed. As far as rifle, I fear that George has ruined you for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpet Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 I would also suggest a .260 rem or 6.5 creed. As far as rifle, I fear that George has ruined you for life. .......... . It's true. Anyway as to usage, it will mainly be a fun/range gun. Nothing formal. Also, I'm sticking with .308 as I don't reload. When I had .308 bolt guns before I shot the Black Hills 175 gr load best. The biggest thing that keeps me away from the AAC-SD is that it's a Remington, and they've been having spotty QC the past couple years. Since the other two I'm looking at (Tikka and FN) have DBM, I'd like this on to as well That stock So by the time I get the AAC-SD ($700-ish) and then upgrade the stock (MIN $300), add DBM ($300-ish), rail ($100-ish), I'm already at $1400 conservatively. Any other thoughts? I'm wondering if a Tikka CTR in a chassis would shoot as well (or better) than the FN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 In addition to my CTR, I have a custom hunting rifle built on an FN SPR action. I can't comment on the SPR's accuracy since it's not a factory SPR, but I can say the action's nowhere as smooth and easy as the Tikka's. In a hunting rifle, my preference is for CRF and 3-position safety, so the SPR action was an excellent choice to fill that role. For shooting paper/steel, though? My CTR gets the nod. In a good chassis, I can only think it'd be even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDRJGB Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 If you want a 308, all three will work. In terms of value, you won't beat the FN SPR if you get a variant w/ DBM and a threaded muzzle. It doesn't matter that it doesn't take AI mags, because if you're not going to compete w/ it you don't need a belt full of mags. The Tikka CTR would be my next choice. The reason is that it comes fully loaded ready to go out of the box. Has a pic rail, threaded muzzle, detach mag, side bolt release, good trigger, and smooth action. The Rem 700 5R is a fine rifle. Benefit is that it has lots of aftermarket support. Downside is that you're going to need to spend money on that after market support for a new trigger and for a DBM setup. A Timney 510-U trigger does not cost much, though. And CDI precision can install a quality DBM system w/ AI mags for only $200. Not a bad deal. Stock is better than than Tikka but not as good as the FN CTR. The CTR limits you on your chassis options, while the 5R will drop into pretty much anything. A 20" also has a threaded muzzle, so you can put on a suppressor or APA Gen II brake. In terms of accuracy, all of them are awash. They all have comparable weight. You need to decide what you are going to do with it afterwards. I personally have gone the 5R route, but I'm not sure I do it again knowing what I know now. Unless you're hunting, I think you're wasting your money on a 308 if your range is limited to 200 yards. Buy yourself a nice scope for your AR instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) The post above has a lot of valid points. While superman makes the , you can't go wrong with a Remington argument, I would not really go along with that statement. Remington is doing some ok stuff, some not ok stuff as far as quality control. I don't currently have experience with recent Remington's, but this is the consensus that I get at PRS matches. I would equate Remington with Chevrolet. They do ok stuff, your car will probably be ok, and they make them by the thousands, but don't we always hear a good bit about he lemons? Also, that jump that superman is talking about is a killer. If you want a nice rifle, and you buy a Remmy, you will always be upgrading to fix this or that. Why not buy what you want the first time. Every post above says "buy he Remmy, but you will have to change this, and this and this." Read the posts. A lot of people get hung up on the 308. I have two, both shoot very good, and there isn't a thing wrong with them. If you are going to the range, or doing a little deer hunting, they are dandy. You want to buy ammo, so you choose 308, but Hornady and Winchester are both making 6.5 Creed match ammo. It costs almost the same as if you reload. I'm getting ready to start buying ammo instead of spending all my time reloading. One day a friend will ask you to ride down to Va, to shoot a little monthly match. You show up and there are a bunch of country boys hanging out, and you figure you might do ok in this match. At the end of the match, you are 3rd from last and the two guys that won shot almost perfect scores, and they had to go down five targets to find a tiebreaker. You are scratching your head, and your pride has a big dent in it. I bet they weren't shooting factory Remington's, and I know they weren't shooting 308. Buy the rifle that works for your application, just don't sell yourself short at this end, and have to redo everything later. Edited July 6, 2015 by shooter steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) The post above has a lot of valid points. While superman makes the , you can't go wrong with a Remington argument, I would not really go along with that statement. Remington is doing some ok stuff, some not ok stuff as far as quality control. I don't currently have experience with recent Remington's, but this is the consensus that I get at PRS matches. I would equate Remington with Chevrolet. They do ok stuff, your car will probably be ok, and they make them by the thousands, but don't we always hear a good bit about he lemons? Also, that jump that superman is talking about is a killer. If you want a nice rifle, and you buy a Remmy, you will always be upgrading to fix this or that. Why not buy what you want the first time. Every post above says "buy he Remmy, but you will have to change this, and this and this." Read the posts. A lot of people get hung up on the 308. I have two, both shoot very good, and there isn't a thing wrong with them. If you are going to the range, or doing a little deer hunting, they are dandy. You want to buy ammo, so you choose 308, but Hornady and Winchester are both making 6.5 Creed match ammo. It costs almost the same as if you reload. I'm getting ready to start buying ammo instead of spending all my time reloading. One day a friend will ask you to ride down to Va, to shoot a little monthly match. You show up and there are a bunch of country boys hanging out, and you figure you might do ok in this match. At the end of the match, you are 3rd from last and the two guys that won shot almost perfect scores, and they had to go down five targets to find a tiebreaker. You are scratching your head, and your pride has a big dent in it. I bet they weren't shooting factory Remington's, and I know they weren't shooting 308. Buy the rifle that works for your application, just don't sell yourself short at this end, and have to redo everything later. Steve, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I based my thoughts on the fact that Trumpet said: Money is a big consideration, he doesn't expect to compete, at least not anytime soon, and only has access to a 200 yd range. With those factors in mind you don't need to leap anywhere. $150 trigger will get you shooting very satisfactory groups. If you want to upgrade later, a Remmy action will drop into about anything and yes, you will have to spend some serious bucks to bring the gun up to a very competitive level. I would start with a decent chassis, then rebarrel in .260. That way your mags are guaranteed to work. The Remmy has been the basis for a lot of great competitive rifles. In the matches I've been to, I don't remember seeing any FN's or Tikka's but Rem actions were everywhere If you don't want to invest in the upgrades it takes to get there, so be it. A tricked out Rem is still cheaper than a GA precision or Surgeon. All that said, I really can't speak about Remington's quality in modern production. I own a SS 700 which just got an extreme makeover into a custom 6.5x284. I also own a 700 VS which will soon be transformed into a PRS capable gun. Both these guns were produced more than 15 years ago. I have looked at some of their recent production and was terribly underwhelmed. Edited July 7, 2015 by 38superman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) I have a Rem in 25-06, action has been trued, hart barrel, HS stock 1.25 lb trigger. Built by C. Joines about 20 years ago. Shoots like a demon inspired laser beam. Love it. Compare that with a new Remmy with the hogue stock. Set it on a rest and watch the barrel lay down on the stock. It's all free floated till you set it down and start shooting. Can't figure out why your groups are opening up, because the barrel is free floated. Not. The xmark is just junk. Pure and simple junk. I think the Remington is a decent action to start with, but why buy a rifle, and by the time you are done with it, all you have left is the action. Check out the bolt action rifles section at SH, go down about ten posts and check that out. I didn't start that thread. My entire point is, people want a precision rifle, and everyone says buy Remington. No of course they don't cost what a GA or Surgeon, (or my Stiller) but you get what you pay for. I understand that the OP is on a budget, I am a skilled blue collar worker with a son in college. I understand budgets. I tried to build a gas gun on a budget to shoot PRS matches with. Right now I have an $800 upper that you could use for a boat anchor. Sooner or later, most people will be drawn towards matches or local comps, and that's when we find out that our good idea budget wasn't really that good of an idea. I'm not trying to beat anyone up about their rifle. Remington built a great reputation with quality products some years ago, I just hate to see where it has gone. The pic is my wife's second group she ever shot using a scoped rifle. Stiller Tac 30, Kreiger in a McMillan A5. 6.5 Creed. This group was shot at 200 yds! The small group is mine at 100 yds getting it dialed in Edited July 8, 2015 by shooter steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoker Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I love the 308 and will always have one.. I sold my nice bolt action 308 and got an AR10 for general use/fun/hunting and am building a 6.5 creedmoor for LR competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 CCoker, I'm with you. Maybe not the sexiest girl in the gun cabinet but still so much fun! I can't imagine not having a .308. Steve, I'm with you on the new Rems. I am left handed and that severely limits my options. I was delighted to see that Remington makes a LH Varmint model 700 in .243 I wanted one really bad thinking it was a clone of my old 700 VS with the H-S precision stock, jeweled bolt and decent adjustable trigger. When I actually held one, the rubberized stock, the black parkerized bolt and the general cheap feel of the rifle really dissapointed. The model 700's of my youth were iconic. The standard others were measured against. I guess Remington just decided to go after the WalMart market and cheapen the rifle,.... pity. Unfortunately for me, its still the only LH receiver around unless I want to pay $1200 for a high end action. Tls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Thank you for starting this thread. I have never shot a precision rifle, but have certainly wanted to. I have been considering getting into a competition similar to PRS, there seem to be quite a few matches that involve precision rifle and pistol. Which to me sound fun. I do like shooting a shotgun, but on a sporting clays course not a 3 gun course. I don't currently reload for 308, but I have plenty of reloading components for 308 because it is the only rifle caliber I own for my hunting rifles and I have slowly stocked up on components. Then I got to thinking maybe I need to only consider 6.5 but I want to reload 308. I realize I can do both but I also don't expect to become a professional at precision rifle either. I'm thinking makin my first build off a 308 platform. Sounds like a good start to me. Edited July 9, 2015 by Butterpuc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yessot Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 If you're serious about competing in LD, check out 6.5 Creedmoor. It is not a coincidence that the largest percentage of top PRS shooters run the 6.5 CM. With the PRS season winding down, there are many for sale. Buy once and be done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1time Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 If you're serious about competing in LD, check out 6.5 Creedmoor. It is not a coincidence that the largest percentage of top PRS shooters run the 6.5 CM. With the PRS season winding down, there are many for sale. Buy once and be done! The 6.5 creed and .260 have fallen from the top shooters. Most are shooting a 6mm variant now. That said, the 6.5 creed is the way to go if you don't reload and might want to shoot past 200 yards. Ruger has a new rifle out. Lowlight has spent a few months with it and has a lot of good things to say about it. He has a review in the bolt gun section on snipers hide. http://www.ruger.com/micros/rpr/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuey Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I disagree, 6.5 and 260 are still very popular with top shooters. I do agree, 6.5 is the way to go for production ammo and 260 for reloading. I am building a 6.5 Creedmoore and will be reloading. I may switch to a 260 after I shoot this barrel out. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I switched to a 6 creedmoor (from a 243) and couldn't be happier. I do have a 6.5 creedmoor and a 260, both are great but they don't get used as much at the 6 creed now. It also seems like most of the guys shooting comps were running a 6mm of some type at the last match I went to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1time Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I disagree, 6.5 and 260 are still very popular with top shooters. I do agree, 6.5 is the way to go for production ammo and 260 for reloading. I am building a 6.5 Creedmoore and will be reloading. I may switch to a 260 after I shoot this barrel out. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Fortunately we don't have to agree or disagree. A very data driven person created precisionrifleblog.com and takes the time to survey the top 50 PRS shooters from across the country every year. If you want to know which caliber, bullet, sling, bipod, barrel, gunsmith or whatever the top shooters use, it is on that blog. 60% of the top guys are shooting 6mm class bullets, of which the 6 creedmoor is the most popular. Only 40% are shooting 6.5 class bullets of which the 6.5x47 is the most popular. If you get to the top 10, 8 out of 10 are shooting 6mm cal, 1 is shooting a 6.5 and 1 didn't answer the survey. It is a pretty interesting sight with a ton of info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 That new Ruger in 6.5 creed or 243 would be an incredible starting point. Maybe get sneaky and ream that 243 out to AI, or set it back a little and go to 6 creed. Options, options....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardmix Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Personally with AI coming out with the AT platform last year there are a lot of the Mkii's and iii's on the market. I would grab one of those and a extra barrel and call it good. Hardmix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCAR Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) I have a AI MKIII 260 and Tikka CTR 260. For the money you can't beat the Tikka CTR. Only down side is the price of magazines. The CTR is light, nice trigger and its not a Ruger. However if I had to do it all again I would get the AI AT with 6.5 and 6mm barrels and be done with it. Edited September 20, 2015 by SCAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowfin Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Is it true that the 6mm stuff eats barrels? That might be a budget consideration for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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