Division switching

[Moltke]

I regularly shoot irons and optics divisions. I'm set up for both with two rifles and the rest of the gear is mostly the same. I like the challenge of irons because the shooting is harder, and the challenge of optics because the gaming is harder. I have gotten into the habit of bringing my irons and scoped rifles to matches if I dont know what expect for long range because target presentation is a big deal for irons. It falls into the "if I can see it I can shoot it" mentality, but then sometimes you can't see it... So... If I can't see it then I switch to the scoped division.

I know many people shoot different divisions (for other reasons), and I have seen many switch at the last minute so when is it okay to do so, and when is it not?

Edited June 16, 2015 by Moltke

[Doug H.]

It's like deja vu all over again. I don't have any problem with people changing divisions. I do think that if a shooter changes divisions at the last minute because they are afraid of a couple of long targets it makes that person look silly. If you don't have the confidence to shoot a division then you should work to improve your skills or just shoot something else. For most of us it's not about winning but about doing the best we can and seeing how we finish against our peers. Tough targets are part of the game and I relish the hard ones.

Doug

[davsco]

not sure i'd use the 'afraid' or 'skills' words. eyesight and vision come into play. targets painted vs unpainted, out in the sun v obscured in shade or brush.

[kurtm]

I once switched from irons to optic because there were only 11 other iron shooters and all of them fairly new. I didn't switch rifles however and shot my iron sighted rifle in tac optics (real iron sights by the way, no batteries need apply!) I didn't feel silly, and I did finish well into the top 10.

However taking a whole bunch of extra stuff to a match just because you can't count on the match director to do what he should in the way of target presentation seems silly to me. That is why I chose not to attend those matches, and if I do I will have an optic on my rifle.

Doug, my personal experience tells me that it is fairly easy to make targets visible from dawn to dusk and rain in between. My personal experience also tells me that a vast majority of match producers won't take the time to do so, after all why should they, their match fills right up.....even if it forces folks to bring a bunch of gear just to decide if they can see the targets or not. Now that is the silly part!

[Doug H.]

Kurt, you and I have stood on stages (ones that I'm working) looking for targets and I feel your pain (it's over there by the big tree, no the other big tree). I don't like searching for targets any more than the next guy but it is easier at 6x. Still, when I decide what division I'm going to shoot I stick with it and I'm fairly confident that most others do too. To those of us that learned to shoot rifle with a scope, a guy that can hit long targets with iron sights seems to be almost magical but I agree, if you can't see the target it's hard to make the magic happen.

Doug

[Stlhead]

I am going to chime up with some kudos to Doug. I have always shot limited or even HM at his match and the targets have have all been visible for me with the exception of one the first year and no others since. I am sorry that those visible targets will not be back until next year, but I can wait.

And yes as a limited shooter I can use a magnified optic in fact this year I may not even get to shoot limited, but I don't change gear if I jump divisions either, not because there is anything wrong with it, just because I am too lazy to haul out 2 sets of gear. Magnified rifle optics make the game less fun for me, but shooting the same division as the rest of my buddies is still more fun than shooting limited by myself. Good thing there is trooper to keep it interesting.

It's not magic Doug, it is just different, I am not even sure it is all that much faster all things considered, but it sure SEEMS easier when the plate looks so close you can touch it. The only place last week where the optic was a big help was on 4 where the weeds partially obscured the last two flashers. I am sure it sped me up once I started using it but I did not feel that much faster on most of the stages.

[Moltke]

Oh to be clear I'm not dragging around full sets of gear, just some 23rd mags for the pistol and a 12rd tube & spring for the shotgun.

[kurtm]

Do you just carry your optic around as well, or do drag around the rifle that the optic is attached to?

[Moltke]

I just pull real hard and stretch my Pris into a 1-6

Yes rifle too but I guess I could slim down to just an upper if I wanted

[ericm]

Switching divisions is easy....just use all open gear after declaring limited, feign ignorance, and sometimes you end up shooting limited and sometimes you shoot open

I've actually seen this "tactic" to varying degrees over my humble career as a 3-gun poser.

ericm

[BobS761]

I choose division based on whatever seems fun to shoot at the moment, but well before the match. Sometimes I shoot tac optics, sometimes I shoot a Garand in HM. Really, if it were not for the reloads, I would shoot HM all the time. Maybe I'm too casual in my approach, but I never cared about how targets were presented. I can make the hits or I can't. I do 3 gun for entertainment, and friends.

[LSnSC]

The solution to,switching divisions is, if you have a Tac irons, factory, limited or whatever you want to call it, and are taking my match fee them make sure I can see the targets or don't have the division in your match.

I shoot true irons and run a medium sized local match, so know how little effort it takes to make targets visible. 4MOA, paint after each squad, use backers and don't put them in the shade.

If you're not willing to do that, don't have the division and don't take my money. I don't like having to shoot where I think the targets are or game a stage by just slinging one in the general direction and moving on.

Edited June 22, 2015 by LSnSC

[EaZeNuTZ33]

I've been in the habit this year in bringing a spare rifle and shotgun to each match (local or major), and it has paid off when equipment has failed me. Of course, I hate flying, so I also have a pillow, large cooler, 3-gun cart, enough extra ammo to shoot the match 2 more times,.....

If you brought gear to a match for two different divisions, then noticed before the match looks like it would be fun in a different division, I don't have an issue with it. I've brought gear for irons and optics and decided a red dot would be more fun to shoot that match with and switched...but I've never registered in irons and switched to optics. Of course, I like shooting irons a lot and am usually looking forward to it before I go.

If you are mid-match and want to change divisions, I'd have to wonder if you were gaming short bay stages with a red dot and switching when convenient.

[J.Schmitt]

I've been in the habit this year in bringing a spare rifle and shotgun to each match (local or major), and it has paid off when equipment has failed me. Of course, I hate flying, so I also have a pillow, large cooler, 3-gun cart, enough extra ammo to shoot the match 2 more times,.....

If you brought gear to a match for two different divisions, then noticed before the match looks like it would be fun in a different division, I don't have an issue with it. I've brought gear for irons and optics and decided a red dot would be more fun to shoot that match with and switched...but I've never registered in irons and switched to optics. Of course, I like shooting irons a lot and am usually looking forward to it before I go.

If you are mid-match and want to change divisions, I'd have to wonder if you were gaming short bay stages with a red dot and switching when convenient.

Mid match change up to another gun is usually due to a gun going down so you would need range master approval. Even with that most rules will stipulate a similar gun.