Reloading Dies for 223

[a468bu]

I looking to get into reloading for my AR. I am using a Hornady LNL progressive press but also have a Rockchucker.

I was looking for dies and see there are several different choices and was wondering what everyone was using. I am thinking I want to go with Redding with a micrometer seating die. Since I use them for pistol reloading and work pretty well. Can I get away with just a sizing and seating die or do I need to get the neck sizing dies as well? Crimp die?

[peterthefish]

You only need a sizing and crimping die. I use RCBS Small Base X Dies, which allow you to only trim once.

For seating I use the Hornady Seating die and their micrometer seating stem - cheaper than Redding and you can interchange the stem between other Hornady seating dies.

If you are shooting the ammo out of a single bolt action neck sizing only is fine, but for ARs you full length size every time.

You will also need a trimmer. Crimp die is optional. I use a Lee FCD sometimes, sometimes nothing.

Edited May 14, 2015 by peterthefish

[rtp]

Keep using your LnL - I see no reason to date to load on a single stage for AR use, and am currently loading my semi-match .308 bolt gun ammo on my LnL AP and shooting sub-MOA.

If some day I buy a 'guaranteed' 1/4 MOA rifle, AND I can consistently shoot < 1/2 MOA, I'd probably consider going to a Forster Coax or Rockchucker.

YMMV as always, but for an AR - I just don't see the need.

As stated, you'll want to do FL sizing...I use a Redding Type S FL bushing die for my .308 bolt gun, even.

I'm currently using Hornady dies loading .223 ammo, but will eventually go to a Forster micrometer seating die, more for the seating sleeve (improves/reduced runout, and may look like the Hornady 'sleeve' but doesn't work like one) than for the micrometer, followed by a Redding type S FL bushing die...eventually.

I'm also 'sometimes' using a FCD, but have been experimenting with no crimp lately, even on cannelured bullets, and have been seeing some accuracy gains without crimping, but need some more time chasing some comparison loads yet. What I suspect is standard .223 dies are over-sizing the neck a bit, so the FCD just isn't needed...may be interesting to do some more testing once I eventually pick up the Redding and Forster dies (which I'll then be using a neck bushing for desired sizing vs one-size-fits-all standard dies) - whether or not it will make any 'real' difference between mainly Hornady 55gr FMJBT, Hornady 55gr SP, and SMK 69gr BTHPs...we'll see, but probably 'not much' IMO...

Edited May 14, 2015 by rtp

[a468bu]

What do you all think of the RCBS X Sizing Die?

[codemonkey001]

I use Redding dies for my rifles. I just use the FL die and the seater. Eventually I will upgrade to the micrometer dies for rifle too. I have them for pistol and I love it. I have a Lee Factory Crimp die but don't use it. I have a lot of neck tension using Hornady 55gr fmj with cannelue. I've dropped and pushed the bullet tips and they don't move.

Also with the Dillon RT1200, I don't chamfer the neck.

[rtp]

What do you all think of the RCBS X Sizing Die?

I have one, but have yet to use it. It's IMO a nice idea if you have a private range that only you shoot on.

Otherwise, it becomes a hassle, as I find I'm processing more .223/5.56 range brass versus brass I 100% know came only from my rifle... Why care? Because that means - it all needs to be precessed fully each and every time, and even if for example, checking length with a go/no-go or calipers instead of inserting into a trimmer, it's about the same about of excessive time. So basically - why bother w/the X-die at all, if I still have to check/process a majority of brass in the first place? Technically, it'd still become 'all' brass, as how would you differentiate X-die processed brass that's been shot/reloaded a few times vs e.g. a random range pickup at 1.755" - which may well be the 'end length' for X-die-sized brass.

Anyways - I don't have much use for one, I clean, sort, and full process on all my .223 brass and then load it.

YMMV as always.

[tcoz]

I use Lee dies in all calibers I load. They're inexpensive, well made and I've never had a problem in the thousands of rifle and pistol rounds I've reloaded.

[Chills1994]

What do you all think of the RCBS X Sizing Die?

The utility you derive from the RCBS X die depends on what you are trimming your brass with.

I used to have a Possum Hollow Cutter chucked into a heavy duty Porter-Cable or Milwaukee corded drill. I'd set the trigger lock to on for the drill, once it was clamped in a vise. Then I had to pick up each piece of brass by hand, insert it into the spinning Possum Hollow Cutter, then drop the trimmed case into a 5 gallon bucket on the floor. " Rinse, repeat " as necessary.

It sucked!

It made my hands sore, and it was mind numbingly boring.

Consequently, I placed more value on the RCBS X die at that time because I only had to trim once. It saved me from the headache of a job of trimming the brass after each firing.

Then I bought a 650.

Then I bought an RT1200, which I actually never used.

But, I could see how if you had an RT equipped progressive reloader (especially if it hase a case feeder), it would be more convenient, efficient, and easier to keep track of your brass if they all went through the same sizing/trimming routine.

Now, I just buy once fired Lake City brass off a forum member here. It has been stainless pin wet tumbled, resized, trimmed, and primer decrimped, so it is ready to load. (Wooo hoooo!l

I will be back after while with a pic of how I kept track of my RCBS X-die'ed brass.

I am using the Redding micrometer adjustable bullet seating die, and the Lee crimp die.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Chills1994

[bigedp51]

I bought a Forster 30-06 full length die and was extremely impressed how this die reduced neck runout with its high mounted expander. The neck of the case is held by the neck of the die when the floating expander enters the case neck. My sized cases come out of the FL die with .001 or less neck runout.

I then bought Forster expander assemblies for my RCBS dies and again this reduced my neck runout.

The RCBS expander and spindle assembly on the left is adjusted as high as it will go, compared the the Forster expander assembly on the right.

The RCBS die is equipped with a Lee lock ring with its rubber o-ring that allows the die to float and self center in the press.

Bottom line after 46 years of reloading the Forster dies have my vote and greatly reduce neck runout.

Edited June 8, 2015 by bigedp51

[rtp]

I love Forster dies, but note the thread is about .223 semi-autos, not bolt guns.

From what I've read at least, I've seen claims the Forster sizing die may not leave much neck tension, which may cause issues on a semi-auto.

Anyone confirm/deny?

I'll eventually be going to a Forster micrometer seating die (they're great - Redding copied theirs AFAIK, and cheaper) in .223, but not so sure on the sizing die..

?

[RDA]

Deny, I have multiple sets of Forster die for both 300BLK and .223/5.56 and run the ammo made with them in multiple semi-autos and have had zero issues, certainly no issues with bullet set-back or neck tension issues.

[rtp]

Deny, I have multiple sets of Forster die for both 300BLK and .223/5.56 and run the ammo made with them in multiple semi-autos and have had zero issues, certainly no issues with bullet set-back or neck tension issues.

Excellent, thanks - for .223, this is their National Match/benchrest seating die?

Any idea of how much neck tension they provide with 'typical' fodder, e.g. Hornady 55gr FMJBT or SMK 69grs?

[RDA]

Deny, I have multiple sets of Forster die for both 300BLK and .223/5.56 and run the ammo made with them in multiple semi-autos and have had zero issues, certainly no issues with bullet set-back or neck tension issues.

Excellent, thanks - for .223, this is their National Match/benchrest seating die?

Any idea of how much neck tension they provide with 'typical' fodder, e.g. Hornady 55gr FMJBT or SMK 69grs?

Yes, my set is the full length sizing die with the ultra micrometer seater die (since discontinued as a set http://www.midwayusa.com/product/799076/forster-ultra-2-die-set-223-remington)

if you want, I can measure the inside diameter of some prepped cases in order to compare to Hornady 55gr FMJBT, SMK 69grs and SMK 77grs, I use all three of those bullets.

[rtp]

Deny, I have multiple sets of Forster die for both 300BLK and .223/5.56 and run the ammo made with them in multiple semi-autos and have had zero issues, certainly no issues with bullet set-back or neck tension issues.

Excellent, thanks - for .223, this is their National Match/benchrest seating die?

Any idea of how much neck tension they provide with 'typical' fodder, e.g. Hornady 55gr FMJBT or SMK 69grs?

Yes, my set is the full length sizing die with the ultra micrometer seater die (since discontinued as a set http://www.midwayusa.com/product/799076/forster-ultra-2-die-set-223-remington)

if you want, I can measure the inside diameter of some prepped cases in order to compare to Hornady 55gr FMJBT, SMK 69grs and SMK 77grs, I use all three of those bullets.

That would be great - mainly interested in how much neck tension is applied to an LC case; and unsurprisingly, I use the first 2 of the 3 bullets you mention, as well.

Thanks a lot!

[jayjay1]

Do you guys crimp for your ARs?

[Steve RA]

No, I don't.

[tcoz]

I give a light crimp with the Factory Crimp Die on all my semiauto rounds because the loading process is so violent that I want to avoid any potential bullet setback issues. Many people don't crimp however.

[RDA]

Deny, I have multiple sets of Forster die for both 300BLK and .223/5.56 and run the ammo made with them in multiple semi-autos and have had zero issues, certainly no issues with bullet set-back or neck tension issues.

Excellent, thanks - for .223, this is their National Match/benchrest seating die?

Any idea of how much neck tension they provide with 'typical' fodder, e.g. Hornady 55gr FMJBT or SMK 69grs?

Yes, my set is the full length sizing die with the ultra micrometer seater die (since discontinued as a set http://www.midwayusa.com/product/799076/forster-ultra-2-die-set-223-remington)

if you want, I can measure the inside diameter of some prepped cases in order to compare to Hornady 55gr FMJBT, SMK 69grs and SMK 77grs, I use all three of those bullets.

That would be great - mainly interested in how much neck tension is applied to an LC case; and unsurprisingly, I use the first 2 of the 3 bullets you mention, as well.

Thanks a lot!

I ran some LC and Federal brass through my Forster die. Before resizing, the ID of the necks was .223" or more. After resizing, they were all consistently .219". So, you have approximately .005" of neck tension which again, works perfectly with all of my semi-auto rifles.

[rtp]

Deny, I have multiple sets of Forster die for both 300BLK and .223/5.56 and run the ammo made with them in multiple semi-autos and have had zero issues, certainly no issues with bullet set-back or neck tension issues.

Excellent, thanks - for .223, this is their National Match/benchrest seating die?

Any idea of how much neck tension they provide with 'typical' fodder, e.g. Hornady 55gr FMJBT or SMK 69grs?

Yes, my set is the full length sizing die with the ultra micrometer seater die (since discontinued as a set http://www.midwayusa.com/product/799076/forster-ultra-2-die-set-223-remington)

if you want, I can measure the inside diameter of some prepped cases in order to compare to Hornady 55gr FMJBT, SMK 69grs and SMK 77grs, I use all three of those bullets.

That would be great - mainly interested in how much neck tension is applied to an LC case; and unsurprisingly, I use the first 2 of the 3 bullets you mention, as well.

Thanks a lot!

I ran some LC and Federal brass through my Forster die. Before resizing, the ID of the necks was .223" or more. After resizing, they were all consistently .219". So, you have approximately .005" of neck tension which again, works perfectly with all of my semi-auto rifles.

Thanks, RDA - appreciate it!

Good to go for semi-autos in my book, then.

[dauntedfuture]

I have found that I like the foster dies the best. The only way to know if your LNL or RCBS loads better ammo is to size some brass on both and compare the measurements with the same dies. If you find the runout is better on one press or the other I would go with that. You can load quality ammo with low runout on a progressive press provided you have good dies. The only way to know is to check your set-up with your dies. A press can also induce COAL or length variations as well.

[earplug]

Recently talked to TWO different NRA Distinguished rifle shooters about dies. Both used the Redding National Match dies in AR's.