Weak shoulder with rifle or not

[cking]

I was looking through the 2004 shotgun and 2004 rifle rules.

1.1.5.3 Shotgun says may dictate weak shoulder for Standards exercises

For rifle it say may not.

Is that a typo?

[Bill Sahlberg]

I dunno about USPSA rules but we had 200 yd weak hand rifle targets at last years DPMS Tri-Gun. We added the 20% "handicap" rule this year as we had shooters that were legally blind and unale to shoot using that side. This year we may have flying clays weak handed :-)

[chuckbradley]

I hope any match that has weakhand rifle or shotgun disclose it up front so someone doesnt waste their time traveling to a match and watching it go down the drain because of this.

I once shot a shotgun match at knob creek, when we got to the line they told us it was weakhand. I couldnt even get a sight picture weakhand. Thats how strong eye dominant I am. Shot every no shoot there, finally finished by shooting from the hip. I will never shoot a rifle or shotgun match that has weakshoulder in it. Guess if I had known I could have covered my right eye. Dont even know if that works.

Never shot knob creek again.

[George]

I don’t have a problem with a course of fire that rewards a weakshoulder approach if it is the shooter that chooses to employ that position for it’s “possible” advantage. As a course description mandate, I think it sucks. I like the “freestyle“ application of weakshoulder.

--

Regards,

[Neil Beverley]

No typo! We have permitted weak shoulder Standards in SG for years and years with never a problem. The rifle committee chairman was concerned that for rifle there could be a safety issue with some gun types as the cases are ejected.

Chuck - It is important to close the right eye if shooting off the left shoulder (and visa versa) otherwise you will find that you will shoot approx 6-8 inches to the right (if from the left shoulder) at a distance of around 10-12 yards. As an instructor I can always tell if a shooter has closed the wrong eye or has both of them open.

As George says it's good when stages provide the opportunity for the competitor to choose to swap shoulders. Otherwise the position can be "encouraged" (sometimes enforced) by the postioning of barricades and foot fault lines in a comstock freestyle stage.

For Standards, strings are restricted to a max of 6 rounds or 12 rounds if there is an compulsory and nominated reload. So over a match it's never likely to be a big deal.

It's just another shooting skill to learn. Some people are very good at it. I'm not. It is taught as a matter of routine at all UKPSA Basic Safety Courses (which has to be passed) and the transfer from left to right and right to left is dealt with in particular. You would be amazed at the things some people try to do.

There was a nasty little pair of stages at a UK match last year. 6 metal targets with 2 fairly close in penalty targets. First run the competitor had to wear an eye patch on their strong eye (throughout the stage of course), for the second run the patch had to be on the weak eye. Otherwise freestyle, no mention of strong or weak shoulders.

[chuckbradley]

You dont understand, I can not close my right eye without closing my left. It is impossible for me to shoot weakshoulder unless the covering the right eye with tape or something works. Bottom line if it has weakshoulder I wont go, if i go and it is sprung on me I wont shoot. Sound whiny? Sorry Just not going to do something I cant do, I will take the handicap if they allow it.

Only one other time I refused to shoot a stage at a match. They required you to be seat belted in a seat. because I am big i had to move the seat all the way back to fasten the belt. With the seat back I could not see the far right target which had to be shot out of a port/hole in the windshield. It was impossible. I got out of the wang mobile and told Mike Martin I wasnt going to shoot a stage when it required me to remain in a position that I coldnt even see the targets. They lengthened the seat belt and I shot. Luckily we were the first squad to shoot.

[Neil Beverley]

Chuck

Sorry about the difficulties.

With the situation as you describe you should certainly be permitted to cover your strong eye as a solution. You might like to try finding how much you would need to aim off to then still hit the targets, it should be that you need a point of aim about 6 - 8 inches to the left of the centre of the target, but whatever the distance it will be consistent from shot to shot for the same distance but will vary at different distances.

However, of course I also respect your choice to avoid matches with any weak shoulder stages. Fortunately it doesn't occur at many matches.

[chuckbradley]

Its so bad I cant even look down a barrel and get a sight picture weakshoulder. I am going to be sorry i even put this on here. My local club will most assuredly have weakshoulder now.

[GENE S]

Weak eye, weak sholder shooting is not for me eather.

I'm with you Chuck on this one.

Gene

[rhino]

No typo! We have permitted weak shoulder Standards in SG for years and years with never a problem. The rifle committee chairman was concerned that for rifle there could be a safety issue with some gun types as the cases are ejected.

That's it? That's the entire justification, or is there more to it? Seems weak at best, to allow one but not the other based on that.

[Airedale]

Chuck,

I will bet you lunch that, when reading the shotgun course description at Wilmore next month, your (and only your) squad will hear "all weakhand".

Dave

[benny hill]

Hell chuck, the way I've been shooting late'ly I cannot see out of either eye.

[SinistralRifleman]

Being a lefty I have to shoot off my right shoulder often to engage the targets anyway at competitions....so it doesn't bother me much.

[latewatch]

I have the same problem as Chuck due to a bout with Bells Palsy. I cannot physically close my right eye without closing my left. My solution is a pair of the flip down sunglasses. I cut off the left side lens and painted the right lens black. I clip them to my shooting glasses and, when I have to shoot weak hand with a long gun, I flip down the lens covering my right eye. That is the only way I can get a sight picture with a long gun weakside. Works for me!!!!!

[1911user]

Requiring use of either weak "eye" or "shoulder" seems a great way to take the fun out of a 3-gun or long-gun match. I can understand some weak-hand shooting for handguns since they only require one hand to shoot. Rifles and shotguns are 2-handed weapons and if both hands work, why switch sides other than making it artificially harder in a non-fun manner?

[chuckbradley]

IPSC is about fun , not feeling like you just had an enema!

[Bill Sahlberg]

Wow, what a bunch of pansies. This is the third year of the DPMS Tri-Gun Challenge and at the first two we had no complaints of the weak handed rifle course. Why do we shoot weak hand pistol anyway? Isn't proficiency with a gun subject for us to try to "master" the gun. It sounds like the majority of these complaints are from those too set in their ways to try something new. If you want a real 3 Gun match with a few challenges the DPMS Tri-Gun Challenge is

for you!

[chuckbradley]

Bill I dont appreciate being called a pansie. When you learn to read you will learn that I wrote it is an impossibility for me without some device to cover my right eye. Gee takes away any real life rambo application. If being a rambo is what you want to be then fine, you can have it, its not for me. I shoot because I like to shoot and have fun. If I aint having fun I will go elsewhere. Just maybe it would be a good idea for more of those running matches to understand the shooters are their customers and if you dont give them a product they like they wont be back. Its not their job to see how much they can screw with the shooter. Seen enough of that in the past. Another reason if it aint USPSA sanctioned I dont shoot it either otherwise you never know what you will be dished up at these matches.

The set in our way and not wanting to try anything new comment doesnt even apply. Fact is I did try it and it just doesnt work for me.

Want to be real practical then when requiring weak shoulder disallow use of the strong hand for support. Why would you shoot weakside if you had two hands available. Its just a way to screw with the shooter. If its about mastering the gun then go a step further. Disallow use of either hand, use your toes. Better yet use mind power to make it shoot. Thats how ridiculous your argument is.

Sorry if a sound just a little upset.

[Cactustactical]

My left eye is also so extremely dominant that I can not get a sight picture from the "off" shoulder, so those stages that require it are a waste of time for me.

I really do not see the purpose of requiree weak shoulder shooting when required in a match, in fact that requirement introduces a higher level of danger and chance for error when forced on those people who have not practiced that technique and are forced to do it because the stage requires it. A major match should not be the place to force someone to do something they possibly have not practiced or physically can not perform.

[Flexmoney]

Closed