How many rounds to shoot during practice?

[pdg45acp]

I read an article a while back (Front Sight???) where the author stated that he limits his practice sessions to about 220 rounds. I believe he said something to the effect that if he shot more than that his ability to learn from it would get stale. I believe I understand where he is coming from on this, I've done some 1000 round sessions and after about 300 - 400 rounds I was just blasting.

Does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations about how much ammo to expend during a practice session?

(Edited by pdg45acp at 11:34 am on Oct. 28, 2001)

[38supPat]

Hard to call...Its up to the individual and your attention span. 200 - 300 is my usuall limit..I like to leave feeling like I still want to shoot, not burnt out...however I have in the past done 1200 round marathon sessions, after 300-400 I was just blasting but at about 900-1000 I had some breakthroughs, most likely because I had been at it so long, I was no longer trying to shoot (trying to shoot a's, or trying to shoot fast) I was just doing 'something', and then it became automatic, kinda like when you are in a car too long, you just seem to be on auto pilot. Kinda cool able to shoot a's at speed faster than before because you no longer care about being fast, you just do it.

Pat

[race1911]

200-300 seems about right, although I too have had a few  (quite a few) 700-1000 round practice sessions.....remember, it's not the quantity, it's the quality.......it depends on what particular things you are practicing too......make sure every shot counts, so to keep your attention span after 300 rounds requires some doing.....blasting away really is not working on learning anything

[Flexmoney]

I think it is very important to practice with a goal in mind.  I have spent way too many practice sessions just blasting away.  I have to travel to practice.  When you aren't shooting in your backyard blasting is a waste of time and money.  (Might be fun though.)

Figure out what you need to work on, then go to the "drills" section and find one that covers your current need.  I have printed most of the drill and built a three-ring binder.

[Patrick Sweeney]

If you're practicing details, 200 to 300 rounds is plenty.  If you're practicing for overload and then breakthroughs (the danger is that your "breakthrough" could be a flinch) then shoot until you're so tired it become hazardous, then stop.

When I was developing shotgun skills on bowling pins, my practice regime was 96 rounds.  Done right, I was done in 25 minutes and dripping in sweat, even in the winter.

[benos]

pdg,

Like everyone said, it varies considerably. In general, the more "experienced" (whatever that means) you are, the less you need to shoot. The less time behind the gun you have, the more just going through the motions of shooting will help to build a base to build on. These days, I rarely shoot more than 300 rds in a session. In the old days, I'd maybe shoot somewhere between 200 - 600 rds, depending on the type of training. And then when we used to get really silly, living on the practice range at the Steel Challenge, we might shoot 1000 + rds, eat lunch and call it a day.

be

[myorke]

When I was really "in shape" I was shooting 300 rds per session.  That seemed to work for me.  Your milage may vary.

That being said, I found that some of the most beneficial "rounds down range" were my first 50.  These were when I was "cold" and therefore representative of my capabilities in a match.  I'd usually take it a step further by trying to create some form of artifical pressure to deal with during these first 50 rounds.  You know, setting a goal (time limit/score) to achieve.  It took a while but I eventually became really comfortable with dealing with this and it definitely paid off on race day.  Again this worked for me.  Your milage may vary.

Mike

[Scooter]

Wow, you guys practice!  I guess that's why I'm stuck at a high C and can't quite get up into the B's.  Between school and work, and what's left of my social life, there's not much time left for training.

I try to keep my practice session (what's that) less than 200 rounds, usually just about 100 rounds.  By not bringing tons of rounds, I can keep my goals specific and just work on those goals.  If I have a lot of ammo, I tend to end up throwing rounds downrange.  Plus I get sick of loading mags and picking up the brass, and thinking about how much work it's going to be to reload more rounds.  Basically shoot until it's no longer fun, when shooting has become a chore.

[Chriss Grube]

Scooter,

You can survive and even excel in C without practice. When you hit B and up you either make time to practice or get used to getting your ass handed to you a lot!

[bountyhunter]

I agree with what was said (past 200 is probably too much).  I shoot for 1 hour at practice with 3 different guns (not always the same three) and shoot about 220 rounds total.  The point is to focus on some fundamentals and execute them correctly to build muscle memory (solid grip, steady pull, don't flinch).  When your arms are tired and you're just ripping off shots, your actually re-inforcing incorrect technique.

[j1b]

Getting redundant but . . . 220 sounds perfect to me.

I used to shoot and shoot and shoot - sometimes making progress - sometimes not.

Quality is the key - and eventually I LIMITED myself to 200 round practice sessions. That way if I wanted to get something done - I couldn't screw around.

If you want your practice sessions to really pay off - take 200-230 rounds out - and tape targets after they've been shot twice. Preferably after each string. You will probably end up only shooting 200 rounds - but you'll have learned a ton.

Focus and have goals - that's about ten times more important than round count. I've not shot actively in several years - and I feel confident I could be 95% of where I once was after practicing ten times - for 2000 rounds.

JB

[Detlef]

o.k., Jack, now don't leave us in the haze: What exactly would you practice if you had approx. 10 practice sessions with approx. 200 rds. each? I know everyone should practice given their own strengths and weaknesses, but just as an example, what kind of quality training would get *you* back up to 95% (or so) w/i 2000 rds.?

--Detlef

[TDean]

I try to keep'em short & sweet.

I think Flex hit it, have a goal in mind for that specific day.  If you can't shoot on the move, practice it.  Whatever it is, I don't think it takes more than 50 rds per session.  

Let's make shooting-on-the-move todays goal.  Let there be a "Box A" and then a "Box B" 15 feet to the left.

Put up 2 targets 15yds downrange.  On the signal in your head (I like to recite the whole "shooter ready, standby,...Beeep" thingy) get out of "Box A" and proceed to "Box B" double tapping the 2 targets as you go.

Man, do this 10 times and that's only 40rds.

Hell, make the boxes 25ft apart and throw in a reload.

Go from left-to right, right-to-left.

I also noticed that full 19rd mags during practice sessions tend to be wasteful.  I load as many as I should shoot +1  I think this forces me to make every shot count.

Tomorrow will be another area to improve on.

Works for me.

Alow to me compare it to "cramming" for a big test.  That's not the way to learn.  Your brain can't completely digest all the inputs it's getting.   Study a chapter at a time.   ......and wait 1/2 hour before swimming

(Edited by TDean at 6:58 pm on Dec. 17, 2001)

[Dan Bone]

Very true. I actually shoot very little in practice sessions. Each visit to the range I have an outline of what drills I want to do. Just like a match you only get one chance to do it. I cheat and give myself 3 runs at each drill. In between I concentrate on what I seen and felt as I tape the targets. Then I'll repeat it two more times. For each session I'll have 4 or 5 outlined drills. Each run 3 times. Each consisting of approx 6 to 12 shots. That puts you somewhere between 150-200 rds of quality training. Next I'll I spend a few rounds seeing how accurate I can be at 25 yds. Try to put them in one raged hole. This helps with trigger control, sight alignment and showing you where your gun shoots.  Then blow off any extra at plinking and having fun. Yeah, 220 sounds good.  

[j1b]

Detlef

Well . . . I'm pretty stuck on the basics.

First two practice sessions I would devote quite a bit of time on draws, reloads, and multiple target scenarios. Ranges would be from 25yrds to about 10 yrds. max. This would be supplemented by due time spent dry-firing.

After that I would begin working on barricades. Initially drawing from behind the barricade and engaging single and multiple targets. Sometimes working one side - sometimes working both sides. Eventually I would also start working on moving into the barricade.

So that's about 4 practice sessions - very focused on basic drills. My fifth day I would probably try and work areas I was not satisfied with over the last two practice sessions.

Days 6 and 7 I would really start to spend less time on any one drill - I'd set up targets and shoot, move targets and shoot, I'd start to spend more time throwing stuff at myself on a more "spur of the moment" basis - like a match. If I found an area I wasn't performing in - I would then begin working that area.

Keep in mind - if matches happen between these practice sessions - one key component would be practicing areas I screwed up at a match.

Now - if I'm about ready to go shoot nationals I'd spend my last two practice sessions on the core basics again (draws, reloads, multiple target scenarios (probably w. hardcover and no-shoots)). I know from experience that these make the difference in a match.

I can be more specific on drills - I wasn't sure what you were looking for. Whatever questions you have I'll answer. It's easy for me to do - because soon I will be taking the exact steps I mentioned above.

JB

[Nik Habicht]

Jack,

If you've got the time, my printer's got the paper.  I'm getting ready to start practicing for the IDPA Winter Nationals. (S&W, Springfield MA, 2/28-3/2/02)  Any info sure couldn't hurt my practice sessions.  Thanks in advance!

[Detlef]

Jack,

thanx for the reply. More detail would be nice (we have a forum category for favorite drills, but an entire string of training drills to best progress yourself in 2000 rds is a novelty) but not crucial. Your objective is to *get back in the groove*, and reinforce things that you already can do or could do at some point. Your approach to training with that goal in mind is surely sound. However, in order to make this clear to other readers, this is very likely not the best (or even an acceptable) apporach to acquire new skills and push the envelope. That is an important component of eventually advancing, and anyone who *just* focusses on *making every hit* will not advance quickly (or at all...). To do that, you need to pick a subject/skill, and stand back and observe while you're shooting it at various paces, with various vision and feel approaches. Then you'll find out what works best for you, and what your current limits are (they might be far beyond what you thought they were). In the process, one might shoot *many* misses, but if one observes what happens and how it happens, these are not wasted shots. Of course, the objective of training is then different. Funny enough, although I've gone through 5000 rds in 3 days when doing that, normally I get tired after 200-300 rds and, in order not to practice bad habits, quit.

Just another viewpoint...

--Detlef

[j1b]

Yeah - I think it depends on where you are at in your training.

Learning the basics is key. No doubt. Having the core fundamentals and learning to apply those in adverse situations (aka a match) is absolutely core.

But pushing the edge is very important to training. I remember once when I was still on top of my game - trying something new and novel. Instead of seeing what I could do (in terms of time) with all my hits - I just tried to see what I could do. Just threw lead downrange and tried to see how fast I could do something. Then I would back up a bit. Often times I would find a new threshold - somewhere beyond the safety net - but not yet crashing into the ground. This was key - and that year at nationals I placed 3rd - shooting what I considered a relatively conservative match. I had learned how to shoot better by missing a lot of targets in practice. Amazing!!!!

Once you get the fundamentals down - you have to learn how to push it. What makes this game tough is time. No shot is difficult in IPSC - every shot is difficult when shooting at warp speed.

Beyond the basics - learning how to interpret what you see to what happens on the target is critical. 9x25 taught me so much about that - because there was no muzzle flip. It then became a factor of how I pushed the gun around. I learned more about my shooting during that phase because muzzle flip was no longer much of a factor.

Still - I think I've come around full circle. What I used to focus on as a new shooter is now what I focus on as a more experienced shooter. I don't know that I would practice shooting a specific stage any longer - what I would practice is where I fell short in that stage.

For those wanting to improve - you HAVE to focus on where you are weak. This involves identifying where you are weak - and in involves the discipline to practice stuff that ain't so fun to shoot. If you practice what you are good at - then you aren't doing yourself any good. Weak hand shooting is a prime example. I can't count the times I dropped points at big matches because of it. I would neglect it because it represented such a small portion of the shooting - however in terms of points lost - this was a major downfall of mine. I had to learn to recognize that - and then learn to practice something I hated more than anything. Now I look forward to weak hand stages because I know everyone hates them like I did - however now I see it as an opportunity to get points vs. pissing them away.

I'll start heading to the range and get some specific drills together of what I am practicing. Keep in mind though - that what I practice will be my weak points - and may not be yours.

In the mean time I would also note that I take a note pad to every match I shoot. What I practice will be dictated by the notes I take. If I lose .2 seconds somewhere - you guys will know about it first. Next match is the week after X-mas - and you'll be hearing from me then.

JB

[3quartertime]

i know this is an old thread but i want to chime in if i can,,,

i have the luxury of a range in my back yard so i understand it is different,,,i practiced what i consider now as alot during the last summer,,,between 3 to 5 k,,,i found that 200 or so was about all i wanted to shoot as i was getting bored,,,i've tried many drills,,,( i want to try many more this season as i am having my range completely redone!!!),,,i tend to want to spend time on accuracy alot,,,i come from a target shooting back ground and i can literally do it all day,,,i have a problem with speed and anxiety,,,it seems what ever i practice when i get to the match i forget it all,,,this may be solved in the zen shooting forum,,,i'm going to explore that soon,,,

i enjoy shooting and i feel that i get better the more i shoot,,,but i'm plagued with the ' match time blues ',,,i would like to make my practice help my match times and i know that in a way it does,,,but i can't see it now,,,

the one thing i'm sure of is that my dry fire work is the key,,,i've just recently started dedicated dry firing at home,,,and i'm really interested in how it will help,,,i suspect tons,,,

all is yet to see but i know that if i shoot more than about 200 i'm not learning,,,

i would like to try one of the marathons,,,that would be fun,,,have to get the loader up and running before that thou!!!

[AGlock36]

I just kind of wanted to throw this out there and see what you all have to say. I see a lot of drills that can be done but seem that you need to have a range in your back yard or an outdoor range to practice them at. I only have access at this time to an indoor range with 17 lanes. Only can use one at a time. How would you go about doing some of these drills or are there other drills out there that are specificily geared twards indoor 1 lane ranges. Thanks for your reply's and help in advance.

Happy Shooting!

:D :D

Paul

[Jasonub]

i generally bring only 250 rounds and practice all the fundamentals and advanced techniques, if i want to improve on something i throw in another 50 rounds.

Lets say i want to practice my weak points, lets say changing mags, the 50 rounds will be dedicated to that task. If i want to practice my weak hand i again use the extra 50 rounds.

so its 250-300 for me

[EricW]

How would you go about doing some of these drills or are there other drills out there that are specificily geared twards indoor 1 lane ranges.

My range has a 5-spot target that I do transition drills on, but 9.63" ain't much of a transistion. Have you thought about going to the range at odd times, i.e. noon on Monday and seeing if you can occupy a couple empty lanes with your targets. I doubt anyone would care unless they were just an obnoxious range nazi.

[AGlock36]

Eric,

Thanks for the reply. Yes I have thought about that but the problem being I dont get home from work until 7 and that is when the DC crowd comes in to shoot. Plus weekends are always busy. So no real time for that. I am doing drills in my house which is fine and all but would be nice to have some specific drills for indoor ranges that I could use. Thanks again for your reply.

Happy Shooting

Paul

:D :D

[EricW]

AGlock,

Well, that just leaves everything else: draws, bill drills, strong hand, weak hand, group shooting, gun timing, etc. BUT, sooner or later, you're going to have to find a way to work on transitions with live fire. Take it from someone whose transitions are very very weak.

You have to decide what you want and where you want to go in the sport and it might involve some sacrifices to get there: extended lunches, "doctor's appointments", shooting early in the AM, staying long enough to close down the joint, etc. Blasphemy, I know. Work's important, but unless you work at a shooting range, there has to be some reconciliation between work and shooting if you plan to progress.

Brian's book is a great place to start for techniques. I think Steve Anderson is working on a book of dry fire drills that will hopefully be available soon.

Now, back to the topic....

[AGlock36]

Eric

Thanks again for your tips. But yes alas back to the topic. Sorry I have a habit of starting on one subject then going into an entirely .........and it was sunny out that day so I had to put the top up on the car............and I told him that he had to walk the dog. Darn see. Subject. Thanks again.

Happy Shooting

:D :D

Paul