Nimitz Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 it's the other way around according to TGO .... shooting all Alphas is irrevelant if you can't do it fast ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I would recommend shooting for neither points nor time. Shoot for hit factor. Points and time are only important because they contribute to HF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) I would recommend shooting for neither points nor time. Shoot for hit factor. Points and time are only important because they contribute to HF.Too hard to get my head around.... When the timer beeps and my IQ rolls back to that of an ape... I can think speed OR I can think accuracy, how does a caveman think hit factor???? ( Tongue in cheek guys, I know Mark gets it ) Edited April 11, 2015 by Ultimo-Hombre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyDucky Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I would recommend shooting for neither points nor time. Shoot for hit factor. Points and time are only important because they contribute to HF.Too hard to get my head around....When the timer beeps and my IQ rolls back to that of an ape... I can think speed OR I can think accuracy, how does a caveman think hit factor???? ( Tongue in cheek guys, I know Mark gets it ) Get as many points as fast as possible = maximize time-on-target from stable shooting positions as close as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Get as many points as fast as possible = maximize time-on-target from stable shooting positions as close as possible. Wait, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyDucky Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Get as many points as fast as possible = maximize time-on-target from stable shooting positions as close as possible. Wait, what? hit factor = points per second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Get as many points as fast as possible = maximize time-on-target from stable shooting positions as close as possible. Wait, what? hit factor = points per second. I know that, but what does "maximize time-on-target from stable shooting positions as close as possible" mean? Maximizing *any* kind of time is bad. The less time you can take to get the job done, the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I would recommend shooting for neither points nor time. Shoot for hit factor. Points and time are only important because they contribute to HF.Too hard to get my head around....When the timer beeps and my IQ rolls back to that of an ape... I can think speed OR I can think accuracy, how does a caveman think hit factor???? ( Tongue in cheek guys, I know Mark gets it ) Get as many points as fast as possible = maximize time-on-target from stable shooting positions as close as possible. get enough points as fast as necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyDucky Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Get as many points as fast as possible = maximize time-on-target from stable shooting positions as close as possible. Wait, what? hit factor = points per second. I know that, but what does "maximize time-on-target from stable shooting positions as close as possible" mean? Maximizing *any* kind of time is bad. The less time you can take to get the job done, the better. Haha true I meant as opposed from far away while standing on one foot. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) i have a degree in AstroPhysics and I don't have any idea what any of you are talking about .... just shoot all alphas as fast as you can .... Edited April 12, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 ...... Nothing, Was really looking forward to someone lining moto out on the fundamentals of USPSA scoring. Forums are funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Go fast enough to outrun your mikes... Sent from the range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Had a buddy with an open gun scream thru a stage a while ago. He was defiantly trying to outrun his misses! Put up a blazing fast time. He had 22 mikes. Can't outrun that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) To answer the thread title,..... NEITHER. Rant to follow........ "deleted rant" Let me ask, "How do you practice?" ABOUT 4 POST UP^^^^^^^^^^. NIMITZ NAILS IT PERFECTLY. I would add: If you are doing that, then practice that way also, constantly striving to do the correct things, FASTER. everything before,.... and some after NIMITZ's post, is irrelevant. Edited April 19, 2015 by Chris iliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) everyone always tries to make things way too complicated .... USPSA is only about ONE thing: Shooting all alphas as fast as you can ... "Shoot slow to get your hits" has to be at the top of the list for the all-time worst advice ever given about this sport ..... the only thing I can think of that would even come close is being a democrat .... Edited April 20, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 everyone always tries to make things way too complicated .... USPSA is only about ONE thing: Shooting all alphas as fast as you can ... The problem is people take that phrase (just shoot A's as fast as you can) as A commandment handed down from Mr Magic Shooter Deity. That is only part of the answer. If you wanna run faster than the rest you have to put in the work. If you truly accept your skills at their base core level then you can follow this plan and shoot well, but I don't think better. Kinda related to that topic, Its not just good enough to say, I am a former Pro athlete,I have a Masters degree, a Ferrari, and net worth of 15 million(or whatever) so I will just will myself fast and do it because I am smarter, better or tougher than those other guys. The ego and mind gets in the way no matter who you are. So does lack of preparation. Toughness is demonstrated by getting to practice. So if you really just Shoot A's as fast as you can then you should finish every match with 97-99% points and 0 penalties, RIGHT ???? Do you do that? I don't and I know better. That is a very good mindset but to win you must prepare better than your competition and execute it on match day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) everyone always tries to make things way too complicated .... USPSA is only about ONE thing: Shooting all alphas as fast as you can ... That's not really true. Perhaps they don't cover math with numbers in astrophysics. If you can score more points per second by shooting A/C's while moving, instead of all alphas, then that's what you should do. If you can squeeze in one more target than everyone else between an activator and the mover, then you should do it even if you get 2 C's or a C/D. Those are sometimes free points. Empirical testing appears to show that the surest way to success is to shoot *mostly* alphas as fast as you can, and do everything else really really fast. The guys that shoot all alpha's on a routines basis usually lose. Edited April 21, 2015 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 it's not shooting all alphas it's not going as fast as you can it's shooting all alphas as fast as you can ... I doubt those people who are actually shooting all alphas are " ... going as fast as they can ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 it's not shooting all alphas it's not going as fast as you can it's shooting all alphas as fast as you can ... I doubt those people who are actually shooting all alphas are " ... going as fast as they can ..." They're going as fast as they can shoot all alphas. Empirical testing shows that shooting all alphas as fast as you can is generally a lower HF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 This one threw my wits out the window as I honestly did not have a strong plan when I was called to the line.I honestly think this is my worst stage ever during the match. I finished this at 8.4 seconds with poor shot placements, majority in the D's, only one A and 2 C's. Didnt hit a N/S (a relief!). It was high risk and yes, there were a few that simply had a zero on this stage. The very top guys got this at 4.5 seconds. If I scored you properly, you got a 2.98 hit factor, about 30% of the top guys. So mathematically, you could have taken an extra 6.72 sec to get all your points to get the same hit factor. If I didn't think I could get everything in the first pass, then I would just plan on shooting two targets on each pass. If I did it that way and got all A's with the same 8.4 sec, then my hit factor would be 5.36 and get around 55% of the stage points instead of 30%. That would be laying up and playing safe instead of going for the birdie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) i have a degree in AstroPhysics and I don't have any idea what any of you are talking about .... just shoot all alphas as fast as you can .... This is basically it. ^^^^^^^^^Of course, doing this does not net all alphas and I will go out on a limb and say that Nimitz knows this and didn't mean it that way. I didn't take it that way? I am sure most experienced shooters didn't either. I'm glad it got sorted out and some of the less experienced shooters pointed out how it could be misconstrued. I know what Nimitz is saying and agree 100%. To excel in this sport you have to also do what Bill says,...... prepare better in all things shooting related. Now, I would add, constantly strive to do all things more efficiently/faster. Whether that's learning how to hammer close targets or leave a position or whatever. Our sport is points divided by time, more points, less time, win win. Edited April 25, 2015 by Chris iliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunt_fish Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Jim, I shot this stage too - in 4.5s (open). The key here was to shoot the targets as they appeared (right to left), to minimise the amount of time spent NOT SHOOTING. I see you waited until the last target was out and shot it left to right - you effectively 'wasted' about 1s waiting. If you compare the two directions, shooting left to right didn't gain you anything, as yes, you shot the left hand target when it was stopped, but by the time you shot the right hand target it was at full speed. Going right to left meant you shot the right hand target at full speed, but by the time you got to the left hand one it was stopped. So the speed of the targets was similar no matter which way you shot it. The other part was to try and get all shots on the paper in the first pass. By not doing this, you had to wait like 1.5s for the targets to reappear, which absolutely kills the stage time... I'll have a look but don't think I have video of me shooting that one. Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) i have a degree in AstroPhysics and I don't have any idea what any of you are talking about .... just shoot all alphas as fast as you can .... This is basically it. ^^^^^^^^^Of course, doing this does not net all alphas and I will go out on a limb and say that Nimitz knows this and didn't mean it that way. I didn't take it that way? I am sure most experienced shooters didn't either. I'm glad it got sorted out and some of the less experienced shooters pointed out how it could be misconstrued. I know what Nimitz is saying and agree 100%. To excel in this sport you have to also do what Bill says,...... prepare better in all things shooting related. Now, I would add, constantly strive to do all things more efficiently/faster. Whether that's learning how to hammer close targets or leave a position or whatever. Our sport is points divided by time, more points, less time, win win. yep ..... to answer the OP's orginial question ... it's neither. shooting slow for points ain't right and neither is shooting fast for time. you simple must do both at the same time. Why do you think our sport is so difficult to master? Edited April 25, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Go fast for time. Unless you're missing a lot. It's way more satisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I got to ask, is this a legal COF? I thought that even a speed shoot COF can not have more than eight shoots without a mandatory reload? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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