2015 2-Gun National Championships (USCA)

[davsco]

seems like doing this in two days would be pretty achievable, but the weather is looking a little volatile, so the extra day might come in handy if any weather delays.

[davsco]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6p8p4l98opes02o/USCA%20Official%20Rulebook%20v3.2.pdf?dl=0

latest rules

8.3.2 says couplers are legal

*Magazine couplers are legal in all USCA

divisions and satisfy the requirements of a Tactical Rel

Edited May 26, 2015 by davsco

[davsco]

safety rules #5 isn't something i remember seeing - says safety must be on when not bringing gun on target to shoot, such as while moving, transition from one shoulder to another.

[Moltke]

Shooting schedule day 1

[Moltke]

Shooting schedule day 2

[Moltke]

Shooting schedule day 3

[Moltke]

2nd range brief at 0600 for those who couldn't make it tonight

Shooting starts at 0700

[2501]

Armalite and NF prizes were excellent, but the rest of the prize table was weak. I don't see this sport progressing without much better sponsorship.

[StealthyBlagga]

Armalite and NF prizes were excellent, but the rest of the prize table was weak. I don't see this sport progressing without much better sponsorship.

How was the quality of the shooting challenge, match administration etc.?

[Buddy2]

First off I would like to thank the RO's for working this match spending 14 hrs on the range for three days for not much more than a thank you. I would also like to thank the sponsors that did sponsor the match. This is the first match I have ever shot that took 7 hrs to shoot 4 stages. They still have a lot to learn and work to do. If you want to see a better match at peacemaker wait for the questionnaire to get sent out and let them have it. Yes the prize table was less than advertised.

[Buddy2]

I think the silence of the match quality speaks for it's self.

[Moltke]

With a low count of RO's to run the stages, there were significant constraints on the match that I only came to understand upon starting shooting. If you're used to FNH 3-Gun then this was not it. The match population was smaller, RO count was smaller, and staff was stretched pretty thin throughout the competition. As a competitor who wasn't an RO, I would like to thank those guys and girls who made this whole thing possible by shooting themselves through the whole match and then sticking around ANOTHER 3 days to get all of us competitors through it.

The sponsorship for this match was not anything close to the major 3-Gun matches like Tarheel or FNH so hopefully that will grow in the future.

The shooting itself was good. Excellent target presentations, movement challenges, barricade / wall placements, lot of natural terrain shooting, a woods course, elevated positions from the house, long range targets that Irons divisions shooters could easily see (4+MOA and painted between squads).

Finally, some rules need to be revised to make the sport more desirable for 3-Gun shooters to compete and a survey to solicit input and suggestions is being sent out. Please everyone take advantage of that.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Are scores posted anywhere?

[Moltke]

http://www.usca2gun.com/?action=matches.profile&SHOWRESULTS=true&ID=19&

[bmiller]

With a low count of RO's to run the stages, there were significant constraints on the match that I only came to understand upon starting shooting. If you're used to FNH 3-Gun then this was not it. The match population was smaller, RO count was smaller, and staff was stretched pretty thin throughout the competition. As a competitor who wasn't an RO, I would like to thank those guys and girls who made this whole thing possible by shooting themselves through the whole match and then sticking around ANOTHER 3 days to get all of us competitors through it.

The sponsorship for this match was not anything close to the major 3-Gun matches like Tarheel or FNH so hopefully that will grow in the future.

The shooting itself was good. Excellent target presentations, movement challenges, barricade / wall placements, lot of natural terrain shooting, a woods course, elevated positions from the house, long range targets that Irons divisions shooters could easily see (4+MOA and painted between squads).

Finally, some rules need to be revised to make the sport more desirable for 3-Gun shooters to compete and a survey to solicit input and suggestions is being sent out. Please everyone take advantage of that.

Thanks to the ROs that worked this match. You guys worked your butts off in that heat. I shot no mag and had trouble seeing some of the white long range steel up against the clay berms. After the rain storm (and after I shot) you could see the targets great. That's part of shooting 1x. I would have liked to seen backers on all long range steel to make it more uniform throughout the day. FN's grey targets and yellow backers work good. The rule changes they talked about making next year would improve it.

[davsco]

I echo everything Ken said above. Stages were a lot of fun and in my mind similar to the stage quality of the FNH 3 Gun. Logistics certainly could have been better and with a new venue and relatively new match and format, probably not completely unexpected and surely will be improved next year. Albeit some long waits, as far as I know everyone was able to shoot all 10 stages. It was a rough 3 days shooting in the pretty hot and very humid weather, and surely even worse for Staff that did 12+ hour days Fri-Sun and also Wed/Thurs.

[dauntedfuture]

Thanks to all the ROs that worked the match. Overall there are issues that I noted with event; there were issues running and administering the match which kind of always can happen but the round count and prize table was much lower then advertised. I shot about 150 pistol if that and 300 rifle. This was not the major match that was advertised.

The bigger issue is what does USCA do for the shooting sport world; how is it different then FNH or 3GN matches with 2 guns and not three. The only thing I can see is that the scoring is a little different and you have to shoot with a sling and always wear your pistol. That's about it. There are some small other differences.

For USCA to survive it needs to be different and when it advertised 50K in prizes and a huge round count it needs to deliver. Simply put this was not a national level match.

[doogiehowitzer]

The efforts of the volunteer ROs cannot be overstated. They definitely saved the match and the PNTC should be indebted to them for it.

After shooting this match and a similar start up 2 gun series last summer I definitely see a place for a semi- precision oriented rifle/pistol match like we saw this weekend. Instead of asking what USCA offers that FNH or 3GN do not think about what it does offer. There is a large subset of the shooting population that own an AR and pistol but do not own or see a need for a 3-gun shotgun. This format brings people like that into the action shooting sport where they might have skipped out otherwise.

There are some hokey rules but it seems those in charge are receptive to everyone's input. It could be worse at least we didn't need a 'cover garment'!

[Bryan 45]

I can see a big market for rifle/pistol matches. My suggestion to gain more interest from those already shooting matches of various flavor would be to adopt rules more similar to existing matches. Use Horner scoring so that accuracy is rewarded. Use targets with an appearance as one would expect in a practical shooting competition. Stage descriptions can dictate the slinging requirements for rifles and the condition of the pistol, even requiring it to be re holstered and retained if that's what the organizations management wishes. Use existing division names and modify as they see necessary. No need for a completely separate rule book.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Bryan 45

[dmshozer1]

I can see a big market for rifle/pistol matches. My suggestion to gain more interest from those already shooting matches of various flavor would be to adopt rules more similar to existing matches. Use Horner scoring so that accuracy is rewarded. Use targets with an appearance as one would expect in a practical shooting competition. Stage descriptions can dictate the slinging requirements for rifles and the condition of the pistol, even requiring it to be re holstered and retained if that's what the organizations management wishes. Use existing division names and modify as they see necessary. No need for a completely separate rule book.

[dmshozer1]

Here we go,

Took eight hrs. to shoot three stages first day. Second day was better? Started at 7:00 AM next day. Shot

five stages in seven hours. Started next day at 11:00 AM. Finished last two stages at 2:30. Went to where the prize table was to be held. Was informed that two squads had not shot their last stage. Left at that point never to return.

18-1/2 hrs to shoot 10 stages.

I have shot 3gun at Peacemaker many times. The place is awesome. They have always provided tarps to shield shooters from the sun and rain. Some stages had them for the RO,s. No problem with that. They deserved it. So did we.

It was in the 85 to 95 degree's range at the match. They provided water, for the shooters, nothing else.

RO's tried their best but the inconsistencies were very obvious. One example was allowing some squads to take a sight picture with your rifle from a roof top prop while others could not. Big time saver for the shooters allowed to do it.

Oh, did I mention that I DQed on the second stage for having one foot in the shooting box while the other was in the air while I was loading my rifle?. I will say at this point that I knew you had to be in the box before I could load so It was my fault I DQ'ed. Technically I was in the box or at least I thought so. MD said it was a safety issue but had a hard time explaining that to me. My thinking and every person that knew about it thought it should have been a procedural penalty.

It was a very long 2-1/2 days of picking up steel and taping targets for the squad I was in.

Okay, I'm done. It's history.

[5pins]

dmshozer1, I was on your squad and remember you getting DQ. You had one foot in the box and one in the air. We all felt a match DQ was a bit much for that. A procedural sure, a stage DQ at the most.

For the most part I thought the stage designs where pretty good and challenging. However the round counts where much less than first advertised.

Match addmin on the other hand was poor. It was run more like a local match then a national. Just looking at the match schedule the night before it seemed obvious to me and my friends that it was going to be backed up. When we showed up for our first stage Friday afternoon we were delayed by and hour and a half. By the time we got to our third stage it was over two hours behind. We had to shoot our fourth stage the next day. Saturday morning went much better.

We were asked come in two hours early on Sunday to beat the weather but when we got there it was running about an hour behind.

I really like shooting 2 gun and hope it grows and gets better. Hopefully next year they have more sponsors and the match runs better.

[CJW]

dmshozer1, I was on your squad and remember you getting DQ. You had one foot in the box and one in the air. We all felt a match DQ was a bit much for that. A procedural sure, a stage DQ at the most.

So, does the USCA rulebook define "in the box" as requiring both feet down inside the box in question?

Obviously, those of us from a USPSA background, or used to any 3-Gun ruleset I can think of, tend to interpret "in the box" as meaning "not out of the box," and the situation as described would not only not be a DQ, it would not be a penalty and would generally earn a high five for a good, aggressive stage run.

[dmshozer1]

dmshozer1, I was on your squad and remember you getting DQ. You had one foot in the box and one in the air. We all felt a match DQ was a bit much for that. A procedural sure, a stage DQ at the most.

So, does the USCA rulebook define "in the box" as requiring both feet down inside the box in question?

Obviously, those of us from a USPSA background, or used to any 3-Gun ruleset I can think of, tend to interpret "in the box" as meaning "not out of the box," and the situation as described would not only not be a DQ, it would not be a penalty and would generally earn a high five for a good, aggressive stage run.

My thinking exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lead-Head]

I cannot find the "one foot in the air while reloading" dq rule in the rule book.

7.5.1 states stepping outside shooting area is a procedural for shots fired, no dq.

Did anyone have the rules handy at the match?

I hate rules that are more than 3 pages...

Edited June 2, 2015 by Lead-Head