Italian gun lube, Frog Lube and testing methods

[DDustin]

I've been using Frog Lube paste for the past 2 years or so. I've really liked the smell and the application of it but I've started to question it after a few issues I've noticed. I did by the way apply it per the directions. I stripped it all down with degreaser and then heated the metal and applied it liberally. I let it soak in then wiped it all away and applied it how I would normally lube the weapon before reassembly.

1st I've had issues, especially in the cold, with lube related malfunctions. It seems like the lube doesn't actually lube well until the parts warm up. This hadn't been an issue for my rifle (ACR) or pistol which will run almost lube free, so I always assumed it was doing it's job. But when I started it on my shotgun and AR, which tend to be a little more sensitive, I started having malfunctions at the beginning of the day when it was a little colder in the mornings. I would either be stuck cycling the bolt manually for the first 3 or 4 rounds or I would have to add some standard CLP. It seems like when it's cold the paste acts more like glue than lube. Because of this I checked my match rifle and pistol for wear and noticed that it seemed to have more wear than I would expect.

2nd issue was with rust. I always thought this is wear Frog Lube shined, and from the tests I saw this was true. But I took my carry pistol on a week long hike though the mountains, where it did rain a lot for a while. The pistol is an XD45 with a stainless slide and stainless mags so it's typically good to go in the elements but I gave it a fresh coating of from lube before I left anyways. When I got home and broke down my gear I noticed rust actually dripping from the guide rod and down the slide. I then tried to disassemble it and couldn't because the mag release was stuck. I could rack the slide so at least I could unload it. But I had to lock it in a vice and use a mallet and punch to get the mag release to work and eject the mag.

The last issue that I think did it for me was the solvent. I paid about $28 for it and as far as I can tell it does basically nothing. I'm honestly not sure how to test it but it didn't seem to do any more than soap and water, a tad less than Simple Green and no where near standard foam or liquid solvents. So I still ended up using the solvents that make my wife yell about giving everyone in the house cancer.

It doesn't sound like it but I've been a die hard Frog Lube supporter to the point that I've shipped samples to people on the forum for free. But my confidence has been shaken a bit over the past year.

Now, I've seen Italian gun grease around at a lot of matches and I've been given a few samples and it seems decent but I'm a little concerned about dumping money into something else that may cause added wear and tear on my expensive toys. It does seem to feel pretty smooth on the action and again I would really like the idea of a nice smelling and natural lube and cleaner.

So does anyone have any experience with Italian lubes or cleaners? Can anyone that knows about the Italian product line explain the different types of lube they have and what's so different? Is there a good way to actually test the products ability to lube and resist rust? Also Is there a good way to actually test their carbon solvent and copper solvent? If someone more knowledgeable about this stuff can come up some tests, I'm willing to do them on my weapons and post the results. Lastly, has anyone had similar experiences to mine with Frog Lube?

I spent a lot of time in the military with hands soaked in CLP, brake cleaner, Simple Green, Deep Purple, ATF fluid etc. So I'm not looking for any more of that and I'm honestly just wondering about the Italian line and these particular questions. I am planning on trying Kroil and Fire Clean down the road but for now this is what I have and I'm wondering about just this.

Thanks a lot in advance

Dustin

[amccallister]

Mobil 1 full synthetic. I have no idea why people use anything else. I can tell you with absolute certainty that no "gun lube" company has done the kind of research and testing that the automotive industry has done. If it will protect a race car engine, your AR/pistol/shotgun is a walk in the park.

[aandabooks]

Do you apply with a rag or a Qtip? I have a qt that I use for the ram on my press but hadn't thought to try it on a gun. I've been using Froglube with no issues.

[DDustin]

I use my fingers. It melts and I rub it in really thin over everything. Then I put tiny clumps on bearing surfaces.

My problems came to my attention during inclement weather mainly. Except for the solvent which just never seemed to work at all for me, at least like I said, not any better than dish soap and water.

[Jadeslade]

Mobil 1 full synthetic. I have no idea why people use anything else. I can tell you with absolute certainty that no "gun lube" company has done the kind of research and testing that the automotive industry has done. If it will protect a race car engine, your AR/pistol/shotgun is a walk in the park.

The reason is flying. Can't fly with hazardous materials. And actually there are some people who do test gun lubes. There are different issues in cars than guns. For one thing, the car engine is a closed system. A gun is about as wide open as you can get. Also, engine oil has detergents and other ingredients that are put in for EPA and other purposes, because of disposal issue. I don't like lube dripping out of my guns anywhere, but especially on my suits. I've tried them all, also and Fireclean has become my CLP for 99% of use. Zero smell, washes off with soap and water, isn't a Hazmat, and guns run real smooth. Was skeptical at first, but it has proven itself in 1911, shotguns, M4, and SBR with silencer, which is the dirtiest gun I have. My cleaning time, once the gun is established with FireClean, is reduced by at least half the time. So, use whatever you like, just realize that there are different requirements and needs for different shooters. DVC.

DDustin, a lot of shooters around here are going off FrogLube. I tried it, it's ok, didn't like it. Known to thicken in cold. Peppermint is not for me. It is humid all the time here, really humid, and we are very cognizant of the rust issue. Tried some Italian lube I got at a match in Kentucky, seems ok, no real advantage that I saw.Tried Weaponshield, but did not seem to be any easier to clean off that any other lube. No advantage, in other words.

I tried FireClean because some friends really liked it and it has been 6 months now. Best of the lot. Easy to re-apply with fingers and a drip. I think if its's raining you need to relube and wipe, a lot. Kind of way of life here on the water. Good luck.

[Dustbuster1]

I switched from frog lube to Italian GG 2 years ago. I use their carbon eliminator for cleaning, tactical lube for my rifles and their grease where I need grease. I had similar pasty issues w a few of my weapons and had enough.

IGG:

Stays on the components without having to heat them up or do a dance w it.

Has no bad odor

Wicks to lube points without running out.

Has optimal lubricating properties that basically keep parts lubed without bad side effects.

It lubes and protects during high temperatures that climb during hosing stages.

Their line is fairly priced.

A lot of top shooters from different disciplines are using the products because it works.ie Jerry Miculek, Max Michel, and more.

IGG has other products for diff users such as muzzle loaders, occasional hunters, and collectors. There are more preservative and rust preventatives in those products than tactical lube.

Tactical lube is for higher volume shooters.

They have a product called copper eliminator which works like a charm on well, copper build up.

Before using IGG products your weapon has to be clean and free of petroleum based products. IGG is biodegradable. Bios and petro based lubes do not play well together and will form a pasty like grease that no gun will like. Clean weapon before using.

Cleaning seems to be easier w IGG. I can break down weapons after a match and literally wipe them clean w minimal brush time.

I use IGG tac lube on my duty weapons and personal weapons. It's easy, simple and it works.

Last but not least,IGG has stepped up as a sponsor in 3 gun,hitting a lot of matches with support for shooters and on the prize table.

Hope this helps, lots of good stuff out there but there's my 2 cents on IGG as a former green stuff user.... If you call them or e mail them they'll prob send use a free sample pack....

Edited November 10, 2014 by Dustbuster1

[Locomotion]

For lubrication I now use Slip 2000 EWL (extreme weapons lube) after using Clenzoil, Gun Butter and Frog Lube. Living in a dry area I haven't been too concerned with corrosiveness but a fellow shooter sent me this recently, and off subject because it is not directly related to Italian products. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/05/22/comprehensive-corrosion-test-46-products-compared/

Edited November 11, 2014 by Locomotion

[ramms123]

While I still use Froglube you definitely gave me something to consider...however, if you want a real good solvent for a good price you need to try Breakthrough Clean. There is zero smell and I have used it throughout my deployment and it stripped all the dirt and grime of near daily use (small arms range).

[shootingchef]

Bacon Grease!

I'm in the camp that believes oils are for closed systems, Grease like mine or Slide Glide has been very successful in keeping guns lubed in harsh conditions. I use a NLGI 00 base grease which is the thinnest you can get. won't gum up at 32 degrees, or melt off till it gets to 400. But then as we have seen over and over, opinions abound on the topic, so, to each their own. Good luck.

[EkuJustice]

If you want non toxic Give the skip 2000 elw a look. It's a non toxic non hazardous lube that works great in the cold. It dosent need any specific prep work or any specific application method. Just use it like you normally would use a regular gun oil. The frog lube will cause issues when cold on a tightly fit gun. For something like a factory glock it may not matter as it's loosely fit and can really be run bone dry. There really is no magic lube

[Breacher217]

After switching from FL to Fireclean I can and do reccomend Fireclean to all my friends. It is a great product. I use it exclusivesly on my work and play guns.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Breacher217

[Rob Tompkins]

I figured Garnt Cunningham might know a thing or two so I read his disucssion on gun lubes: http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html

I am not a chemiest but do have a broad engineering background and his resoning seems sound.

I use Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) as my gun oil a tiny drop at a time.

[DDustin]

Thank you for all the replies, they've been really helpful.

One note about using engine oil such as Mobile 1. I used to be a mechanic but I'm not an engineer so I could be off. My understanding is that motor oil is designed to "wash away" dirt in a closed system under pressure. It doesn't do well exposed to the elements or with dirt mixed in and it doesn't sit still well. Oil on an exposed bolt has to stay evenly put while being exposed to dirt, water, mud and heat without gumming up or washing away.

With ATF I would wonder about the friction additives and detergents. How would you go about testing the ability of oil to reduce friction? I've seen a lot of rust tests but nothing on friction and wear reduction.

Also I'm still wondering about the solvents. How would you test a solvent? I really like the chem free thing the Italian solvent has going but I have no idea how to figure out whether it's better or worse than brake cleaner, simple green, Sweets or something else.

[EkuJustice]

My cleaning is simple green water mixture 10 parts water to 1 part simple green in an ultrasonic cleaner. Cleans well and fast and I'm not scrubbing it off by hand

[Colodrew]

I picked up the grease, carbon eliminator and tactical lube 2 years ago at Blue Ridge and have been using it ever since.

The tactical lube and grease are outstanding. I can't say I really like the carbon eliminator as a cleaner. The good news is after using the tactical lube carbon and dirt pretty much just wipe off and I don't really need a cleaner or carbon eliminator.

I live in Colorado and shoot in all temperatures and have had no issue shooting in the extreme cold or heat. This morning -8 F and I'm not shooting!

Good luck!

[toothandnail]

Masters , nothing I've tried is even close.

Met the petroleum engineer( he shoots 3-gun) who was in involved in developing it. He can tell you more info than you'll ever remember.

From my experience , it does exactally what he says it will do.

Edited November 16, 2014 by toothandnail

[brisix]

My favorite solvent is acteone. I also were nitrile gloves when cleaning or reloading. I have been happy with frog lube. One question, when you applied it how long did you leave it on before wiping the excess? You should wait at least an hour. I let it sit over night. I also do not wipe the excess off the rails of my CZ Shadow. One nice side benefit my DA dropped 8oz and the SA 4.8oz after application. I have also not had any issues with cold yet. Leaving the excess on the rails probably helps.

[DDustin]

My favorite solvent is acteone. I also were nitrile gloves when cleaning or reloading. I have been happy with frog lube. One question, when you applied it how long did you leave it on before wiping the excess? You should wait at least an hour. I let it sit over night. I also do not wipe the excess off the rails of my CZ Shadow. One nice side benefit my DA dropped 8oz and the SA 4.8oz after application. I have also not had any issues with cold yet. Leaving the excess on the rails probably helps.

I wait about an hour or so till it looks like it has dried. I wipe the excess off of the exposed carrier faces and leave enough to look wet on any bearing surfaces. I've done a few tests and it seems like until it warms up frog lube is almost like candle wax on all the parts. The colder it is the harder the "wax" is. I lubed up 3 carrier groups and left them over night; one in my office around 65*, one outside, ~25* and one in the freezer. I tried to work the bolt in and out and then installed it and cycled the action. I'm wondering if the FL CLP might work better than the paste. I haven't seen any paste available locally for a while though and I'm not sure I want to dump anymore money down that rabbit hole. I would like to test the Italian in a similar way but I'd like to come up with a way to actually measure the difference.

Toothandnail - What's Master's? I've never heard of that one.

[EkuJustice]

There really is no "magic oil" out there. There are always new greatest thing out there lines coming out that's really are best lubing the money coming out of the wallet. If it requires instructions on how to apply the lube some specific way then look elsewhere. The conventional lubes just work and don't cause the issues that the lube it and it stays forever stuff does. When it comes to lube KISS is the way to go

[Chris54326]

I, too, recently stopped usine Frog Lube. I tried Brian's Slide Glide and never looked back. Just be sure not to apply too much. Apply sparingly and then spread it out. My semi-auto pistols function more smoothly than ever before.

[lee blackman]

I learned there is only one way to test lube, and thats in the gun... I kept seeing these pseudo experiments on youtube with different lube versus lube, all of which were far from scientific. I like the plate of truth guy, the truth is he doesn't measure the amount of lube he puts in each square. Thats kind of an important metric if your going to do any type of testing.

Rather than say I like this or that the best, because there are lots of good oils. I basically avoid Rem Oil, WD-40, and 3 in 1 oil for lubrication... They all suck for various reasons...

I DO use EWL 2000, Firepower FP-10, Breakfree CLP, Mobil 1 Synthetic (IS THE BOMB), Lucas oil stabilizer mixed with Mpro-7 lube (because both are great, but not good enough by themselves), pure graphite dry lube (sometimes in magazines, or when is real cold), slide glide (when its nice and warm out), and I did try antisieze compound once for grins, yup it worked but got EVERYWHERE on EVERYTHING... My cat looked like it had glitter in its whiskers for months.

I would like to try, but have not been able to is Mobil 1's new 20W-50 V-Twin oil. It supposed to lack zinc oxide and some other things that regular mobil 1 has in it that you aren't supposed to use with a wet clutch on a motorcycle. Not that I've ever once had a single problem with regular 10w 30 synthetic, just thought about trying something new.

[toothandnail]

My favorite solvent is acteone. I also were nitrile gloves when cleaning or reloading. I have been happy with frog lube. One question, when you applied it how long did you leave it on before wiping the excess? You should wait at least an hour. I let it sit over night. I also do not wipe the excess off the rails of my CZ Shadow. One nice side benefit my DA dropped 8oz and the SA 4.8oz after application. I have also not had any issues with cold yet. Leaving the excess on the rails probably helps.

I wait about an hour or so till it looks like it has dried. I wipe the excess off of the exposed carrier faces and leave enough to look wet on any bearing surfaces. I've done a few tests and it seems like until it warms up frog lube is almost like candle wax on all the parts. The colder it is the harder the "wax" is. I lubed up 3 carrier groups and left them over night; one in my office around 65*, one outside, ~25* and one in the freezer. I tried to work the bolt in and out and then installed it and cycled the action. I'm wondering if the FL CLP might work better than the paste. I haven't seen any paste available locally for a while though and I'm not sure I want to dump anymore money down that rabbit hole. I would like to test the Italian in a similar way but I'd like to come up with a way to actually measure the difference.

Toothandnail - What's Master's? I've never heard of that one.

Here's a link to their site http://www.mastersguncare.com/ the site sure doesn't work as smooth as their lube (I've had a few problems ordering from it) a phone call always got things accomplished.

I could tell a noticeable difference in how easily the bolt cycled by hand on my AR.

[mgardner]

I've been using Royal Purple Max Tuff full synthetic engine assembly lube for about 5 months now. I thin it about 25% with FP-10 in colder weather. It's very thick and stays where you put it. Fouling and dirt wipe off. The engine assembly lube is super slick and has corrosion protection too. Hunted in the snow and freezing rain in a wilderness area and used it on my rifle. No rust, no problems.

[DDustin]

I've been using Royal Purple Max Tuff full synthetic engine assembly lube for about 5 months now. I thin it about 25% with FP-10 in colder weather. It's very thick and stays where you put it. Fouling and dirt wipe off. The engine assembly lube is super slick and has corrosion protection too. Hunted in the snow and freezing rain in a wilderness area and used it on my rifle. No rust, no problems.

Isn't engine assembly lube water and oil soluble? The stuff I use (for engine building not guns) is really sticky and any oil or water such as rain wash it away.

[bobapunk]

I've been using Frog Lube paste for the past 2 years or so. I've really liked the smell and the application of it but I've started to question it after a few issues I've noticed. I did by the way apply it per the directions. I stripped it all down with degreaser and then heated the metal and applied it liberally. I let it soak in then wiped it all away and applied it how I would normally lube the weapon before reassembly.

1st I've had issues, especially in the cold, with lube related malfunctions. It seems like the lube doesn't actually lube well until the parts warm up. This hadn't been an issue for my rifle (ACR) or pistol which will run almost lube free, so I always assumed it was doing it's job. But when I started it on my shotgun and AR, which tend to be a little more sensitive, I started having malfunctions at the beginning of the day when it was a little colder in the mornings. I would either be stuck cycling the bolt manually for the first 3 or 4 rounds or I would have to add some standard CLP. It seems like when it's cold the paste acts more like glue than lube. Because of this I checked my match rifle and pistol for wear and noticed that it seemed to have more wear than I would expect.

2nd issue was with rust. I always thought this is wear Frog Lube shined, and from the tests I saw this was true. But I took my carry pistol on a week long hike though the mountains, where it did rain a lot for a while. The pistol is an XD45 with a stainless slide and stainless mags so it's typically good to go in the elements but I gave it a fresh coating of from lube before I left anyways. When I got home and broke down my gear I noticed rust actually dripping from the guide rod and down the slide. I then tried to disassemble it and couldn't because the mag release was stuck. I could rack the slide so at least I could unload it. But I had to lock it in a vice and use a mallet and punch to get the mag release to work and eject the mag.

The last issue that I think did it for me was the solvent. I paid about $28 for it and as far as I can tell it does basically nothing. I'm honestly not sure how to test it but it didn't seem to do any more than soap and water, a tad less than Simple Green and no where near standard foam or liquid solvents. So I still ended up using the solvents that make my wife yell about giving everyone in the house cancer.

It doesn't sound like it but I've been a die hard Frog Lube supporter to the point that I've shipped samples to people on the forum for free. But my confidence has been shaken a bit over the past year.

Now, I've seen Italian gun grease around at a lot of matches and I've been given a few samples and it seems decent but I'm a little concerned about dumping money into something else that may cause added wear and tear on my expensive toys. It does seem to feel pretty smooth on the action and again I would really like the idea of a nice smelling and natural lube and cleaner.

So does anyone have any experience with Italian lubes or cleaners? Can anyone that knows about the Italian product line explain the different types of lube they have and what's so different? Is there a good way to actually test the products ability to lube and resist rust? Also Is there a good way to actually test their carbon solvent and copper solvent? If someone more knowledgeable about this stuff can come up some tests, I'm willing to do them on my weapons and post the results. Lastly, has anyone had similar experiences to mine with Frog Lube?

I spent a lot of time in the military with hands soaked in CLP, brake cleaner, Simple Green, Deep Purple, ATF fluid etc. So I'm not looking for any more of that and I'm honestly just wondering about the Italian line and these particular questions. I am planning on trying Kroil and Fire Clean down the road but for now this is what I have and I'm wondering about just this.

Thanks a lot in advance

Dustin

If you did the part in bold, you didn't follow the directions... particularly the cold weather procedure...

pet peeve, people who complain because they don't follow the directions...