Laser Training

[KJFpdx]

Not sure if this is the correct Forum for this question. Please advise if there is a more appropriate Forum.

Has anyone used the LASR software from SureStrike? If yes, do you feel it's worth the expense? What's the effective distance from the target?

https://www.laser-ammo.com/L.A.S.R.-Professional-Software-License.html

As you may know, the software works in concert with their SureStrike red laser cartridge for various pistol calibers. I have the cartridge for 9mm and the 40 S&W + 45 ACP adapter kit for the spousal unit.

Really like the cartridge for dry fire. Wondering if I sure spring for the software.

[Nimitz]

probably not what you want to hear but I don't really like those laser training devices for dry fire because they teach the exact opposite of what you should be doing ...

namely, they teach you to visually score your target by looking for where the laser hit instead of learning to call your shots from watching your sights lift ...

I know a lot of people use them but I've trained with Seeklander, Anderson & Stoeger and none of them recommend those devices as good training aids ....

[Hi-Power Jack]

As "target shooters", we're all trained to "call our shots by watching the sights lift" ...

But, I've always wondered, if someone were shooting at me, would I really

be watching my sights lift, or would I be watching the shooter - see where his

hands were, where his gun was, whether he was surrendering, etc?

Not really sure I'd be able to watch my sights in that 1.5 seconds ...

Not saying it's a great idea - not arguing that we shouldn't watch our

sights - just wondering if I really would.

I've heard someone (Clint Smith?) say that it's NOT "I'm so close I

don't need my sights - it's actually I'm so close I can't afford to miss".

BUT, with all due respect to everyone who teaches the correct method

of watching our sights, I still wonder about the advantage of watching

the target in a situation like that?

Just wondering, mind you ...

Edited September 15, 2014 by Hi-Power Jack

[KJFpdx]

Good feedback -- thanks.

I developed the ability to call my shots this summer. I've been able to take several classes and do a lot of shooting on my own this summer, and one day I realized I could tell if it was going to be a good hit without looking at the target to see where the bullet actually hit.

But I do struggle with inconsistency, jerking the trigger, off/on flinch, etc. Like I'm really good 80% or more of the time and really crappy the rest of the time. For me anyway the laser trainer has been helpful in cultivating a smooth trigger pull. I'm willing to consider any tools that may help me improve my speed and accuracy : )

[Nimitz]

I hear you but you do realize that every time you execute a rep using the "wrong" technique you require 3-5 reps of doing it correctly to overcome that negative training? Personally, I think there are several other better techniques to learn to overcome poor trigger mechanics than using a laser ... And they don't introduce negative training techniques ....

[Dr. Phil]

I have recently been using a laser while working on my draw. The laser activates for a millisecond or something, and it impacts right where my dot is. Nice training aid IMHO. Seems to actually help in my "call your shot" mode.

[JPeel]

I bought a SIRT trainer because I got it cheap and it's fun to play with using 1/3 size IPSC targets but I have to be careful to not "walk the laser in" and focus on the front sight. When I do my job and really concentrate on the front sight then it's beneficial. But it's easy to get lazy with.

[UCOShooter]

I would really like to get one for my Glock to do even more dry-fire training. I really believe it would be a helpful tool.

[GreenOps]

probably not what you want to hear but I don't really like those laser training devices for dry fire because they teach the exact opposite of what you should be doing ...

namely, they teach you to visually score your target by looking for where the laser hit instead of learning to call your shots from watching your sights lift ...

I know a lot of people use them but I've trained with Seeklander, Anderson & Stoeger and none of them recommend those devices as good training aids ....

I totally agree. I used a laser for a while, but noticed it was holding me back as you pointed out, I wasn’t truly watching my sights.

Your additional insight about the “top trainers” is also spot on. I’ll stay away from gadgets and gear and focus on repetition. It’s helped so far

[BeerBaron]

As "target shooters", we're all trained to "call our shots by watching the sights lift" ...

But, I've always wondered, if someone were shooting at me, would I really

be watching my sights lift, or would I be watching the shooter - see where his

hands were, where his gun was, whether he was surrendering, etc?

Not really sure I'd be able to watch my sights in that 1.5 seconds ...

Not saying it's a great idea - not arguing that we shouldn't watch our

sights - just wondering if I really would.

I've heard someone (Clint Smith?) say that it's NOT "I'm so close I

don't need my sights - it's actually I'm so close I can't afford to miss".

BUT, with all due respect to everyone who teaches the correct method

of watching our sights, I still wonder about the advantage of watching

the target in a situation like that?

Just wondering, mind you ...

you are talking about 2 totally different things. one is training for gun games/competition. one is training for combat/self defence. what works for one will not neccissarily work for the other.

They are totally different scenarios with totally different requirements.

I think bringing what happens in a self defence situation into training for USPSA etc is counter productive and just muddies the issue.

[bayougump]

I got a SIRT a while back and it's now what my 5 year old "practices and shoots with dad while dry firing" because it was too easy to focus on the laser than the front sight. I felt it was easy to develop some bad habits with if. I think dry firing your competition pistol is better than laser based training, just my 2 cents

[Nimitz]

There are no 'top tier' instructor/shooters that I'm aware of that use or recommend these things .... There's a hint in there somewhere ...

If you are seeing the laser hit the target then you can not be watching the sights AS you break the shot ...

[GARD72977]

I have several plywood IDPA targets( w/cut out for 0 down backed with cardboard) set up in my back yard. I use my real glock. airsoft glock and Sirt gun in the same training sessions. I don't watch for the laser. Sometimes I can see it, sometimes I cannot............. I like the resettable trigger.

I usually set up about 4 Idpa targets (some 2/3 size to simulate more distance) and 1 or 2 steel targets.

I find it very helpful to run the drill a few times with the airsoft gun then take the real glock and just acquire the target. I use the SIRT to pull the trigger on the target. The airsoft gun is the biggest part of my training but the other 2 really make a big difference for me.

I find that the real glock helps me concentrate on gripping the gun very hard and I pay attention because pulling the trigger is not my focus. I am then able to notice if don't have the same feel with the airsoft and sirt.

The key to using the laser gun is to concentrate on the front sight. You will pick up the laser, but with some practice you will not look for it.

Just my 2 cents

[GreenOps]

There are no 'top tier' instructor/shooters that I'm aware of that use or recommend these things .... There's a hint in there somewhere ...

If you are seeing the laser hit the target then you can not be watching the sights AS you break the shot ...

I think people would rather pay extra for gimmicks, instead of dry fire and hard work

[IC24]

I believe the original question was about the LASR software system not the red dot producing hardware or the application of this technology to competition training.

 

I used the LASR software previously and liked it.  It was reasonably easy to set up both on my laptop with a cheap web cam and on my phone.  I used it with a SIRT pistol and a SIRT AR bolt.  Sometime it would not register a shot and sometimes it would record dozens of shots that were not actually fired due to a shifting light or other technical glitch.  But these issues were easy to correct and once you are up and running it worked well.  Generally dim lit room works best.  I used it in my basement and while in hotels.

 

as to the concern about “chasing the dot” I did notice with the camera and software tracking my shots I was able to stay focused on my sight and pushing my eyes to my next target.  My background is defensive shooting.  I am new to competition shooting and not qualified to comment on its utility for that arena.  However my daughter has been using my SIRT in conjunction with regular rangework and it has help her tremendously.  In her small apartment there is ni “safe” direction to dry fire a real gun.  The SIRT makes practice safe and effective.  She won her division in her very first match at local club, and placed high in her second.

 

I stopped using the software while overseas with out the hardware, but will probably be adding it back to my training, unless I go with an IR laser.  To my knowledge the LASR system and most other systems do not work with IR lasers, you need target designed specifically for the IR.

hope this helps.

Edited January 12 by IC24

[JoeMKY]

I never tried the LASR system, but I remember it being around for years.  I ended up using the idryfrire pro target system in 2019, which has the option for IR/Red or Red/Green lasers.  

 

I can still call my shot, and verify it, but I can also see if I am jerking the gun any, measure, total time splits, etc. 

 

These kind of systems can be useful when used correctly, and treat it like live fire training even if it is dry just to prevent from getting lazy.  Which I have caught myself at times being lazy and corrected it.