a matt Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Level 3 match declared major in open, missed by shooting 163.44 PF. Where would I go? Just to minor or shoot for no score? And does what I declared make a diff? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 You score Minor, your declaration is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Actually, the declaration does make a difference if you are using Official Match Ammo (and declared it appropriately before the match). Appendix C3: Competitors using Official Match Ammunition are exempt from the requirements of Appendix C2, Items 38 and 39 as appropriate for the declared power factor. : Power Factor Specific ammo products may be certified as meeting Minor or Major power factor for specific divisions by the US Regional Director : Ammo Verification At any match where competitor ammunition will be chronographed, a competitor using official match ammo will have ammo samples collected during the match and chronographed according to the provisions of Appendix C2 #28. Should the ammo so tested fail to meet the declared power factor, it shall be compared against the average of three rounds collected from the official delivery sample. If the samples collected during the match measure more than 10 power factor points below the delivery samples, the measured power factor of the ammo collected during the match shall be used for score and the provisions of Appendix C2, Item 38 or Item 39 shall apply. Or in other words if using Official Match Ammo, and your match day average PF is with 10 PF of the delivery day sample average PF, then you get the declared PF of the Match Ammo -- even if it doesn't make PF in your gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 From the rule book: If the resultant power factor fails to meet the Major power factor floor of the relevant Division, the competitors entire match scores will be recalculated as Minor, if achieved. If you don't make MINOR then you shoot for no score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Fast answers, thanks a ton. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Who actually uses official match ammo? I have never seen any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Who actually uses official match ammo? I have never seen any. I know some showed up at Nationals last year but I'm with you...I've never seen anyone use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Who actually uses official match ammo? I have never seen any.I know some showed up at Nationals last year but I'm with you...I've never seen anyone use it. I had ammo issues on the first stage at the Florida open in 2012. I was using the green bullets and the OD was a little to much to feed correctly. I then went and bought 400 rounds of match ammo from The Pro shop. At chrono they wrote on my score sheet "Mafch Ammo" then didn't worry me with chrono. Lol I was bit confused but then what was I gonna do if I didn't make power? The ammo ran great, federal cases and the gold MG bullets loaded long 1.120 .40 of corse. I chronoed the ammo when I got back home and the results were not to good. It was just a couple FP/S low. All worked out except the extras coin I had to pay and expensive match to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I use it. Hell, I'm surprised everyone who shoots open doesn't use it now a days. Where are you all getting powder? I know, it's a trick question because you aren't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivers_AR Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I use it. Hell, I'm surprised everyone who shoots open doesn't use it now a days. Where are you all getting powder? I know, it's a trick question because you aren't Ok I'll bite, who produces 9mm Major ammo? Wish Atlanta Arms would, I have a gift certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grouptherapy Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Why push for 9major? Why not step up to 40 or 45 major? They make it easy. Just wondering. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) My shooting partner shoots 40 Open with 135gr Rainiers. Works very well for him! Edited September 2, 2014 by a matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Why push for 9major? Why not step up to 40 or 45 major? They make it easy. Just wondering. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 45 major in particular is pretty useless in an open gun. you want light bullets being pushed fast, by slow powders so that you make plenty of gas to work the compensator and/or ports. the old 45 open guns basically just had comps as a barrel weight as they did nothing else. 40 cal is basically the same story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Why push for 9major? Why not step up to 40 or 45 major? They make it easy. Just wondering. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 45 major in particular is pretty useless in an open gun. you want light bullets being pushed fast, by slow powders so that you make plenty of gas to work the compensator and/or ports. the old 45 open guns basically just had comps as a barrel weight as they did nothing else. 40 cal is basically the same story. Even all of that is irrelevant. It's about mag capacity with 40 and 45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Everyone says capacity and that's nothing, he gets 27 to start. If the stage has more than 27 rounds he will have a few opportunities to make the reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Foreign competitors and people flying who get screwed by UPS might use match ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Why not just man up and shoot Production ...? How hard is it to make 125 PF .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) Very hard if you reload and don't have access to a chrono, nor access to a range that will let you setup a chrono. Edited September 3, 2014 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I had ammo issues on the first stage at the Florida open in 2012. I was using the green bullets and the OD was a little to much to feed correctly. If you're using .40 cal, you may want to ask Donnie for bullets sized at .400" instead of the usual .401". For me they load better and shoot just as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) You are correct, I could have call Donnie I'm sure he would have helped me, BUT I ordered .40 180gr. Loaded them up went to the Florida Open and found out the very expensive way that he did not send me what I had ordered. This was not my first order with him. Ii was using the green bullets. So I dumped about 400 green bullets in the trash had to pay trough the nose for match ammo after I zeroed the first stage. So if I had got what I ordered, I would have been happy with the transaction as It stands I have nothing good or bad to say about the green bullet company. I will say it will never happen again. I now shoot for Rainier Ballistics the BEST lead safe bullets on the market. Thanks you for you thoughts. See you at the range! I should also add this was about 3years back. Edited September 3, 2014 by a matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I've always had very good service from Donny, and he definitely aims to please and will quickly fix anything that goes amiss. Life being what it is, nothing is perfect, and if we find a problem, it's fixed. Glad you're happy with Ranier. Opinions may differ, of course, about what is the "best" bullet (and the "best" gun, Division, etc.) Best regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 Donny and I taked and he did exchange what I had left over, I'm also glad his business is doing well. From what I understand. His bullet work and work well. But they were not for me, that makes the world go around. Thanks, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmt Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 So getting back on topic - sort of...Why are Production shooters penalized more than shooters in Major PF? If you're Lim/L10/Revo/SS or Open & don't make PF you score minor - but you are still scored. If your Prod ammo doesn't make PF you don't score. Maybe everyone should shoot for fun if they don't make their DECLARED PF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 If you declare major but don't make major PF, you still have to make minor PF. If you don't make minor PF, then you shoot for no score. The issue comes up if you declare minor and don't make minor, then there is no recourse but to shoot for no score because USPSA has a minimum PF just like there is minimum caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 So getting back on topic - sort of...Why are Production shooters penalized more than shooters in Major PF? If you're Lim/L10/Revo/SS or Open & don't make PF you score minor - but you are still scored. If your Prod ammo doesn't make PF you don't score. Maybe everyone should shoot for fun if they don't make their DECLARED PF Another way to look at it is that Production shooters aren't penalized "more". Everybody goes down one step if they miss PF, and Major has something below it, but Prod doesn't because we're already shooting at the minimum (Minor) in order to keep the recoil down. Still, we need to make sure we make PF, or we know we're shooting for no score. I'm going to guess that most of the Prod PF misses are with loads that are on the thin edge of 125 (maybe just a few points above 125), and they miss because of changes in location and/or temp or because the chrono used wasn't reading properly (had that problem last weekend, not watching the sun on the sensors). Does anyone have hard data on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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