Retention device

[mildot1]

Want to make sure I made the correct call?

Competitior steps to line and given make ready.

Turns uprange to start position.

Using a holster with a hood that snaps over rear of slide that is thumb activated, holster also has a passive retention device molded into trigger guard area of holster.

I required him to engage active (level three I believe it is called by Blackhawk, this may not have been a Blackhawk) retention device before starting stage per rule 5.2.5.3

Did I make the right call?

I ask because my Ghost and other holsters have a "PASSIVE" device built in and a hard lock, I feel like I penalized that shooter by enforcing the rule?

I was assuming the the hood would be considered a "retaining strap" and should be applied.

Mildot1

[Skydiver]

Yes, you did:

5.2.5.3 ... If a retaining strap is attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command.

[LilBunniFuFu]

You made the right call.

[EkuJustice]

Is the hood the same as a retaining strap? That said that's a crazy rule that should be eliminated as it seems nuts to require full retention on a duty style holster which your seeing more in 3 gun yet the race holsters start unlocked

[StealthyBlagga]

IMHO modern race holsters are ridiculous, period - the inevitable consequence of getting rid of the old retention tests.

[teros135]

We all have the choice of what equipment to use. Locally, we have several LE folks who use their duty rigs, and one in particular is blazing fast getting the gun out of a level-3 retention holster. Want to go faster, we can bring a different holster. The bottom line either way is safety, of course.

[wide45]

Wrong call.

A hood does not look like, nor does it function as a strap. Only the use of a strap is affected by the rule.

This is an old rule. Likely when it was written, the only retention device commonly on a holster, was a strap. The rule has never been updated, nor has any official interpretation required any other retaining device to be used, even if present on a holster.

[Sarge]

Right call per the rules no matter how outdated they are. Let one slide then a different brand holster shows up and you don't let it slide. Personally if I see a hood, strap, whatever, it will be closed prior to starting the shooter.

Old rules or not, if they are still in the rule book they are still enforced

[wide45]

The rule is specific, it says "a retaining strap".

There is no grounds to assume that anything else is meant.

5.2.5.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment on the belt must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match. If a retaining strap is attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command.

[Skydiver]

So the funny questions comes up: At some major matches, I see some Open shooters walking around between stages with some kind of bungy cord to help retain their guns in their race holsters. Prior to walking up to the stage for "Make Ready", they remove the bungy cord. Should they be required to start with the cord attached and retaining their guns?

[Sarge]

You said it yourself. It's an old rule for when old style straps were around most likely. Unless there is something official published in writing I will consider all such items as straps.

[Sarge]

So the funny questions comes up: At some major matches, I see some Open shooters walking around between stages with some kind of bungy cord to help retain their guns in their race holsters. Prior to walking up to the stage for "Make Ready", they remove the bungy cord. Should they be required to start with the cord attached and retaining their guns?

not part of the design of the holster, so no not in my opinion

[gng4life]

Safariland - one of the leaders in a multitude of holsters - even compares the older snaps to the newer mechanism as if they are just an evolution of the technology so I would say you made the right call. Here are some excerpts from their site:

" Twenty years ago the use of the socket and stud snap was the primary securing lock. Now the industry uses several locking mechanisms that re-engage if the user releases them. In some cases an additional movement is required by the user to release a mechanism."

"However, since there are two separate and distinct motions (much like releasing a snap and then rotating the weapon forward slightly with the older 295 holster before drawing)..."

[mildot1]

Well I'm not sold 100% either way yet. Just sent e-mail to J. Amidon hopefully get the final call soon.

Mildot

[StealthyBlagga]

The camel's nose under the tent was when race holsters were allowed to get away with having secondary retention devices (for walkthrough etc.) that could be disengaged before the start signal. IMHO, enforcement of some retention devices and not others is not "equal protection under the law", which is a central tenet of natural justice. I would rather see ALL retention devices mandated at the start signal (including removable retention such as "walk through straps"), or just admit that this rule is farcical and repeal the requirement entirely.

[davsco]

I did ask uspsa and they specifically said the hood on the bladetech WRS had to be engaged.

especially in Limited, I don't see how one guy can use an open holster with no retention but if he uses a WRS he has to have the hood engaged, but that's the ruling from uspsa.

[JAFO]

USPSA isn't forcing you to use the WRS.

[alma]

Looks like a strap to me.

[wide45]

OK, so I went and looked at pictures of retention holsters. Some of the so called hoods really are a strap.

When a retention device is a strap, the rule applies, but only if it is a strap, whatever it is called.

[mildot1]

I got the answer back from John Amidon. The hood is the same as a strap and must be closed.

Mildot

[Sarge]

I got the answer back from John Amidon. The hood is the same as a strap and must be closed.

Mildot