Wesquire Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 My 128 power factor loads have trouble knocking down some of the steel at local matches. Is it okay to load some stronger stuff and try and use that for the poppers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Sure. You only have to make minimum PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) Don't think that would fly at any match where you present ammo for chrono. 128 is way to low to CYA anyhow, load to 135, you will not feel the difference. Edited July 26, 2014 by cnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkguy Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 FWIW, my 124gr 135pf loads out of my M&P Pro 9mm were shooting roughly 128pf out of my wifes USPc 9mm. She has never had a problem knocking down steel with good hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 FWIW, my 124gr 135pf loads out of my M&P Pro 9mm were shooting roughly 128pf out of my wifes USPc 9mm. She has never had a problem knocking down steel with good hits. Perfect example of why you don't "shoot" for right around 125. Different gun, chrono , or weather-conditions may result in a lower velocity. My 173 pf load in 50* chronoed at 169 at area 5's 90*. Inverse temp sensitive powder, but I knew that going in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 If 128pf doesn't do it with a good hit, the steel is not calibrated correctly. See 4.2.4.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 The minimum PF for IDPA is 105 for SSR. If the steel has been properly calibrated so that SSR has no trouble dropping steel you should not be having a problem at 128. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Don't think that would fly at any match where you present ammo for chrono. 128 is way to low to CYA anyhow, load to 135, you will not feel the difference. Rule 8.3 does not state that only one load may be used. It's no different than shooting a box of Winchester white box and a box of Speer Lawman during the same match. Anything not specifically disallowed is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) Ah this is an idea thread, in uspsa appendix C2 Competitor Ammunition Collection and Storage 29. An initial sample of eight rounds of ammunition will be collected from each competitor at a time and place determined by Match Officials. Match Officials may require that a competitors ammunition be retested at any time during the match and may collect further samples as necessary. On the honor system you are stating all rounds used would be representative of the 8 for testing I thinks different loads for different situations would lead to the perception of lite loads for "certain" situations by competitors Edited July 27, 2014 by cnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 You do need to check your ammo in the gun it will be shot in. I didn't and learned at a match that my Colt ammo loaded to equal WWB at f-132 did not get up to f-125 in my Sig Sauer. Fortunately, the chronoman's full length barrel was a Colt which shot like mine, and I was ok for the match. But I increased my load enough to pass in the gun I was actually shooting at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuzinvinny Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I have used 2 different loads at a sanctioned match. I made sure I sent both to the chrono check. At the time I was shooting lead bullets for the majority of my shooting, but wanted to use a plated bullet for an indoor low light (more correctly - no light) stage that required you to use a flashlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I have used 2 different loads at a sanctioned match. I made sure I sent both to the chrono check. At the time I was shooting lead bullets for the majority of my shooting, but wanted to use a plated bullet for an indoor low light (more correctly - no light) stage that required you to use a flashlight. Just tell em you got 2 different loads and ask for another baggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 In IDPA, as long as the loads used chronograph, you can use more than one load. Just provide chrono loads for each load used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewiston Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Don't think that would fly at any match where you present ammo for chrono. 128 is way to low to CYA anyhow, load to 135, you will not feel the difference. Rule 8.3 does not state that only one load may be used. It's no different than shooting a box of Winchester white box and a box of Speer Lawman during the same match. Anything not specifically disallowed is ok. I imagine the rule will change if abused. In the mean time I guess folks can take advantage of the different colored coated bullets: Gold - barely meets PF Red - steel stages Green - dark houses etc. Doesn't seem right That's just my humble opinion nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Lewiston... this is a competitive event. It is shot by some who are competitors. There are Rules that apply. If the competitor is in compliance with the Rules... what's the problem? I carry a 20 round box of factory Hornady 147 grain 9mm TAP loads in my range bag. They are there when plastic barrels are placed tightly to targets and deflect round nose loads. If the barrels are not described in the COF description as 'hard cover' (under the Rules denoting hard cover) then they are 'soft cover' and shoot throughs count. Those are the Rules. Those JHP 147 TAP loads punch through a barrel and deliver a scoring hit, while round nose bullets bounce all over the place. So what's wrong with that? The Rules are the Rules. If a competitor plays within the Rules.... what's the problem? If I present ALL the ammo I am going to maybe use in the match for chrono--- and it passes... what's the problem? Show me in the Rules where that is not legal behavior. And.... if it is LEGAL behavior, what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADulay Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Show me in the Rules where that is not legal behavior. And.... if it is LEGAL behavior, what's the problem? Lighten up, Francis. Nobody has said it's not legal. Looks like everybody in the thread is in agreement. AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewiston Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 GOF You are correct, the rules allow it. I simply voiced my opinion. It's not worth getting into a debate over. Safe shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I thought the idea was to use full power ammo, not competition only ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I thought the idea was to use full power ammo, not competition only ammo. I thought they took that out of the rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packeagle Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Don't the rules define what is full power in the required power factor? 105, 125, & 165? Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I carry a 20 round box of factory Hornady 147 grain 9mm TAP loads in my range bag. They are there when plastic barrels are placed tightly to targets and deflect round nose loads. If the barrels are not described in the COF description as 'hard cover' (under the Rules denoting hard cover) then they are 'soft cover' and shoot throughs count. Those are the Rules. Those JHP 147 TAP loads punch through a barrel and deliver a scoring hit, while round nose bullets bounce all over the place. As long as those bullets leave round holes after passing through a barrel... "4.8.2. The elongated bullet hole rule does not include keyhole bullet holes (a keyhole bullet hole is created by a bullet which tumbles out of the firearm barrel and appears to have gone through the target sideways,) which count for score if they were made without interference from another object. 4.8.3. Odd shaped holes made by bullets ricocheting off of the bay floor, props, steel, etc., are not scored. Only holes made by whole bullets, not fragments, are scored." An oval-shaped hole left by a round that that obviously went through a barrel...down 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 No grease ring present, went through prior object, now the question is it soft or hard cover. And on top of all this, give me a break, 99% of guys shooting different loads are not chronoing,all loads Local whatever , major ya right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewiston Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Don't the rules define what is full power in the required power factor? 105, 125, & 165? Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk Power Factor defines the minimum power required for ammunition. 8.3.1. Ammunition Power The goal is to compete with commonly available ammunition. The minimum power factors are: 8.3.1.1. SSP - 125 8.3.1.2. ESP - 125 8.3.1.3. CDP - 165 8.3.1.4. ESR - 165 8.3.1.5. SSR - 105 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packeagle Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Don't the rules define what is full power in the required power factor? 105, 125, & 165? Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk Power Factor defines the minimum power required for ammunition.8.3.1. Ammunition Power The goal is to compete with commonly available ammunition. The minimum power factors are: 8.3.1.1. SSP - 125 8.3.1.2. ESP - 125 8.3.1.3. CDP - 165 8.3.1.4. ESR - 165 8.3.1.5. SSR - 105 I guess you have me. It defines the minimum. I meant to say the rules define what is legal. If the IDPA gods really wanted us to use more powerful loads they wouldn't have set the PF where they did. By defining in the rules a parameter they are telling us what they consider an acceptable load. So for the purposes of IDPA 105/125/165 is full power for each division. Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk Edited August 1, 2014 by packeagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewiston Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 packeagle It's a wise precaution to use a recipe that has a bit more power than the minimum PF so you have a cushion at the chrono station. A few years back at SS Nats a guy in my squad didn't make PF. We all felt for the guy but he was known for hugging the PF line. I personally load my competition/practice ammo to match my +P defensive carry rounds. Not typical but it's just another day on the range when I practice with my EDC ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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