a matt Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) 3n38 - 3n37 - n350, shooting USPSA making major with .38 S & SC 5" full size. Thanks gents. Edited July 22, 2014 by a matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Fit what? Cartridge case capacity? A particular bullet weight? A particular compensator design? You'll have to be specific since there are several variables that affect Open gun performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Thanks, if you could get any of the 3, which would you choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Matt: For 38SC I would choose N350 then 3N38 and 3N37 last. 3N37 burns hot. N350 seems to give more gas to work the comp than 3N38 for me. N350 and 115grain bullets is a nice combo for 38SC. The 121grain is nice also but I like 115's. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I've used N350 and 3N38 for 115 and 124gr MG bullets, both work fine. I've toyed with 3N37 a little but felt it was too hot/too fast for my guns and didn't do any real load development. 3N38 is a bit slower, a little dirtier, accurate, and gives lots of gas and works the comp well, but the report can be rifle-like loud. If you are concussion sensitive this may be a consideration. Of the three that you mentioned, I'd go with the N350 as it is probably the cleanest burning open major powder I have used, it works the comp well, is accurate, and is easy to load. As superdude said YMMV as all guns are different, so if you can I'd say try each and see what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Question answered, Thanks gents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Eric I PMed you about the long SV insert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 great thread. I've got the same question. just bought a tanfoglio eric custom which has many, many popple holes and a tiny comp. so bleeds lots of gas. was initially told 3N38 would be the way to go, but i'm struggling to find it anywhere. I can find 3N37 and N350 though. I have heard some people had issues with 3N37 being too fast for 38 super major loads. N350 sounds like a winner. anyone care to suggest a load using a 124gn CMJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 For 124gr MG FMJs (same a MG CMJs) here is what I was using in 38 Super: MG124g FMJ @ 1.250" 8.0 gr N350 Winchester or Tula SRP This load gave me about 1350 fps out of two guns, one w/ 5" barrel with no holes, the other was 5.4" with three. I'd recommend a starting load of around 7.6gr and work up with a chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Sound great Bamboo. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klee Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I was using 8.0gr of N350 with MG124 CMJ with good results. Recently I switched to MG115 CMJ with 8.6gr of N350 @ 1.255 with Fed SR primers. I have to say the 115 & N350 is a nicer combo as far as dot tracking and slide speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm really surprised these charge weights are so low, are your charges higher for 3n38? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I was using 8.0gr of N350 with MG124 CMJ with good results. Recently I switched to MG115 CMJ with 8.6gr of N350 @ 1.255 with Fed SR primers. I have to say the 115 & N350 is a nicer combo as far as dot tracking and slide speed. I agree with this stagement . N350 and 124gr bullets works well, but when I was using N350 it was mostly with 115 grain bullets. I was loading 8.8 grains and was getting about 1460fps out of a .38 super loaded at 1.250 for a FMJ. KneelingAtlas - yes, the charge weights for 3N38 are higher. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) KneelingAtlas - yes, the charge weights for 3N38 are higher. Interesting... Does it fill the case more? It seems like it would be a good powder for 9mm as well, but I've not heard much about people using it for nine. I use 9.3 gr of SP2, and since VV says 3n38 is the same (or close enough) as SP2, I imagine it would take much less n350... If I understand correctly you're saying n350 is softer than 3n38, right? Edited July 23, 2014 by kneelingatlas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 3N38 is a bit slower, a little dirtier, accurate, and gives lots of gas and works the comp well, but the report can be rifle-like loud. If you are concussion sensitive this may be a consideration. I'm new to open. I have a pretty bread and butter 5" open gun, it's a trubor T2 with brazos side ports and two holes in the barrel. I didn't know I was concussion sensitive till I started shooting this gun(9.8 of 3n38 with a 124g bullet). It is seriously off putting for me and I am honestly not sure I am going to be able to overcome it. Do you have any powder recommendations for wimps like me? seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 It's a total diff feel than limited for sure. I'm thinking/hoping I'll get accustomed to it? I have only shot 3 matches and about 2500 practice rounds. I'm going to try another 500 today but I'll double plug my ears before this practice. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 3N38 is a bit slower, a little dirtier, accurate, and gives lots of gas and works the comp well, but the report can be rifle-like loud. If you are concussion sensitive this may be a consideration. I'm new to open. I have a pretty bread and butter 5" open gun, it's a trubor T2 with brazos side ports and two holes in the barrel. I didn't know I was concussion sensitive till I started shooting this gun(9.8 of 3n38 with a 124g bullet). It is seriously off putting for me and I am honestly not sure I am going to be able to overcome it. Do you have any powder recommendations for wimps like me? seriously? You can always run less powder with a heavier bullet (it'll be softer, but with more muzzle rise), either that or plug the holes in the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 It's a total diff feel than limited for sure. I'm thinking/hoping I'll get accustomed to it? I have only shot 3 matches and about 2500 practice rounds. I'm going to try another 500 today but I'll double plug my ears before this practice. Lol I've only shot about 300 rounds so far, it is just my initial impression was that, yes as a gawker watching someone shoot open, the guns are obnoxious but was under the impression it was less obnoxious as the shooter. It is less but I was surprised at the very real smack in the head pressure wave. It was hard not to blink for the first 80-100 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 It's a total diff feel than limited for sure. I'm thinking/hoping I'll get accustomed to it? I have only shot 3 matches and about 2500 practice rounds. I'm going to try another 500 today but I'll double plug my ears before this practice. Lol I've only shot about 300 rounds so far, it is just my initial impression was that, yes as a gawker watching someone shoot open, the guns are obnoxious but was under the impression it was less obnoxious as the shooter. It is less but I was surprised at the very real smack in the head pressure wave. It was hard not to blink for the first 80-100 rounds. A 9mm with no holes is much more pleasant to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2011BLDR Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 For 38SC I have used: 3N37 N350 3N38 N105 3N37 burns hot, works as an all around (Limited and Open) for me just like WAP/ Silhouette was in the 90’s N350 used it for years until I had a 4 LB jug chemically destabilize on me causing: Erratic velocity Erratic charge variations as the powder would clump up and stick in the powder funnel / charging bar area Because of this, I rate it as my last choice for a powder now 3N38 great stuff equal to SP2 in my book N105 so far I am liking this one. A bit of caution in loading is needed as @ 9.9G it is about a 70% case fill Barrel length, bullet weight comp design and vent holes (popple vs. Hybrid) will ultimately drive what VV Powder will work best for you, or is it just a burn what you can find at this point? I have N340 (Limited), 3N37 (all around) 3N38 (open) and N105 (open) all on hand right now and continue to buy whatever I can when I can find it, what I have is only 18 months of shooting matches, no room for practice with the currant availability. Out. 2011BLDR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) BeerBaron, I was using 10.2 of N105 pushing a 121 IFP when I had my Tanfos. It is a pain to load as it fills the case but it is really soft. I think you are in the EU (right?) and if so you should have access to the holy grail of Open powder SP2. It is what Eric G runs in his Open Tanfos. I liked 3N38s feel but it is one of the most concussive powders out there. Plus this is what it looks like when you shoot it out of ported/popple holed/hybrid pistols. Edited July 24, 2014 by Neomet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 KneelingAtlas - yes 3N38 is a denser powder than N350 (N350 = 660 g/l, 3N38 = 730 g/l from the VV load manual). Actually, I don't think that N350 is “softer” or “flatter” than 3N38 but N350 is very predictable and is easy to shoot. I know of one 38 super shooting GM who does very well with it and rat holed some so he has it available for the world shoot. A quick search here found that some people do load 3N38 in 9major. The following is just my opinion, so take it for what it is worth. I tried 3N38 in 38 super with both 115 and 124 grain bullets. I thought it worked the comp very well and really liked the way the gun behaved, it was easy to load, easily makes major, and the dot tracking was predictable. However, I did notice the concussion on occasion and found it distracting and I am not really recoil or concussion sensitive. Having said that, to me 3N38 feels a lot like AA#7 except that AA#7 is easier on the ears and IMO gives slightly better dot tracking and the timer says I can shoot it better. So, I didn’t feel the need to buy any more 3N38 as I use AA#7 already and keep it on hand. With N350 I felt that worked the gun nearly as well and gave good dot tracking. What I like about N350 is that it is super clean and offers a nice balance of accuracy, ease of loading, consistency and it shoots well and makes major with no drama (unless you push it). Until recently I tried to keep some N350 on hand as it filled a need and I used it when I wanted a super clean powder like during a long match or when I didn’t feel like cleaning the gun for a while. For these reasons I think it is an easy powder to recommend for new open shooters. Yep, open guns are a boat load of fun and way loud, but there are some powders that are less concussive and still well behaved with very good dot tracking. Two of these are AA#7 with 115 grain or 124 grain bullets, and SR4756 with 124gr bullets. The only real down side to these is that #7 is a little dirty and some people/guns don’t like it (it burns cleaner at higher power factors, though), and SR4756 is being discontinued. When I started shooting .38 super around ‘90 AA#7 was one of most popular powders and what I used. It is fun to try new powders, but I keep going back to AA#7 as my mainstay favorite 38 super major powder. If you and your gun like it a little dirty then AA#7 is a hard powder to beat. SR4756 with 124 grain bullets is also a very good powder and is a very close second to AA#7 and is cleaner burning. I'd recommend trying both of these powders with a 124 or 130 grain bullet if you are concussion sensitive. Try not to develop a flinch, that can be pretty hard to overcome. Oh yeah, and double plug when you shoot. That helps a lot. Good Luck with your open division endeavors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Thanks for all the info Bamboo, I only shoot less than 500 a month, so my SP2 should last me a while, but I will run out at some point so I'm on the lookout for a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Boatload of info here and it is much appreciated. Thanks.... Well i did shoot another 500 rounds this afternoon. And the 3n37 had a noticeable flash from the comp, I don't think It would affect me at a match but if I was looking for it, if was there to see @ 9.0. Fun stuff. Lol.. Edited July 24, 2014 by a matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 great posts guys. thanks for all of that. Neomet: I'm in the little convict colony down under (australia). We do get most stuff here but SP2 is seemingly not one of them. not many places carry any vectan power at all. VV is no problem, just a little pricey. what we get most is a locally made powder by a company called ADI. I believe they export a lot to the US under different brand names (a number of types of hodgson powder is made in australia by ADI). The most common open powder used here is probably AP-100 made by ADI. But plenty of people use VV powders too. Well I bought some VV N350 yesterday. Since I shoot IPSC I can't use those 115gn loads, but I can get 120gn coated lead pills (my fear is if one is weighed below 120gn it would get my DQ'd). I will most likely stick to the frontier 124gn CMJ RN though. they are a very nice pill. I've just got my open gun which is a tanfoglio eric custom 2010 V12. It sounds like I'll start working up a load from a start of about 7.5gn of N350 behind the 124gn pill. I've also just bought some federal small rifle primers to use (I use fed small pistol in my other guns). Bamboo, how did you find the N350 compared to 3N38 for concussive force/noise? I know you said 3n38 was about the worst, and you said N350 was nice and clean, I was just curious about how 'friendly' it is to shoot compared to the other powders mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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