RJH Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I was just curious why the Paras aren't more popular. I understand that mags can be a little issue, but aside from that, is there another reason I should steer clear from them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajaholic Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 People can be afraid to own a gun that shoots too well, because then they have no excuse... BTW: I like mine, Para Pro Custom 14-45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaGunner Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Nothing wrong with Para's. Great guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstagn Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Since this is my second Para, I would like to venture an OPINON. First one bought in 1995 P14-45 (made in Canada). A well known GM was shooting one and so was my friend who knew him and was an 'A' (uspsa) shooter at the time (now a GM). My friend who also was an amateur gunsmith. So he modified mine by dumping out all the fire control 'stuff' and replaced the trigger, sear, hammer, disconnector as well as the series '80' parts, also added the usual uspsa limited parts (magwell etc.) did a 'trigger' job (2/12-2/3/4 lbs.) with a nice clean break and it NEVER failed since (estimated round count 30k+) (i did on occasion). Just replaced the stock ejector/mainspring/extractor. Works perfect. Rather than refinish this oldie but goodie, I decided to buy a uspsa ready competition gun. A Para p14-45 Pro Custom ready to go except for a trigger job.WRONG. too many MIM parts, thumb safety broke right out of the box. But Para made good. Jamming of the mainspring under the disconnector caused the gun to jam on numerous occasions. (mainspring is a length only available from Para), I sent the gun back to para and they replaced the frame saying the cut for the mainspring was too low and that any 1911 mainspring would now work. Got the gun back and again replace the entire fire control system. Not quite the end, after about 5k rounds the barrel bushing cracked and jammed the gun. Finally after numerous trips to my gunsmith and 4 months of screwing around it now works PERFECT. Current round count approx. 10k+. P.S. still need mainsprings from Para, Ed Brown etc still too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Hmmmm. I currewntly own and shoot 1 Para 16-40 Limited set up for Limited, another 16-40 backup (never had to resort to it) set up for limited, a Tactical Black Ops Single Stack and a 14-45 Pro Custom. No idea how many rounds fired but it's a bunch. Only revisions ever done was an Aftec extractor on the 16-40 Limited and upgraded fire control on the 16-40 w/ Wilson Combat. Everything else stock. I have no complaints. YRMV You'll also hear some poor mouthing of Taurus. I have 2 Taurus PT1911's. One 45 the other 9mm. Wrong size barrel link fixed under warranty in 10 days on the 45 and went to Wilson 47D mags for the 45 and 10 round Tripp Cobra's for the 9. No other troubles attributable to the gun(s). What I'm getting at is about the only think you'll read concerning a particular mfg are the ones that somehow didn't do what the buyer expected. No way to tell what that was. Last bad mfg I heard of that was true was the Yugo car. A companies' reputation is too difficult to attain to let something screw it up and with the communications of the internet shoddy can't hide. Most of what we see and hear on the 'net has a background story we're not privy to. I'd say buy what fits your eye and if by some chance there's a problem I have no doubts the maker will make it right somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajaholic Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Hey I had a Yugo. Brand New car, w/warranty out the door for $2995.00 We ran for 4 years as a parts chaser for our business before we gave it to the neighbor kid to drive until it died a year later (could no longer get parts for a busted timing chain issue) Hard to go wrong when you have zero expectations and it goes for 5+years. Our other cars depreciated more than that when they left the lot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) I was just curious why the Paras aren't more popular. I understand that mags can be a little issue, but aside from that, is there another reason I should steer clear from them?Personal experience in my case. I paid big money for a 1640 that was really an abomination. The piece parts were VERY poor quality, barrel was not fitted correctly. Shot 5" high at 25 yards with with rear sight bottomed out. This was back in late 90's and the gun sold new for about $1250. Have no idea what percentage of Para's are dogs, but the fact that a gun which jammed on half the rounds fed to it got out the door was enough for me (along with all the other problems). IMHO, Para is pretty much like all the mass gun makers today: they throw a lifetime warranty on them and use the customers as QA. Edited July 21, 2014 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 P.S. still need mainsprings from Para, Ed Brown etc still too short.I noticed Para used nonstandard parts in my 1640. When the guide rod failed (kept unscrewing itself) I bought a standard one and found out the Para was thicker diameter for no reason I can fathom. Had to use only Para guide rod, spring and reverse bushing. I think the extractor was non standard as well, the Para part was also a cast piece (junk). Really annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leath4m Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I had a Para back in the early 90's. It was ok, I shot average A grade with it. I paid Aus$1500 and spent about $3000 on it. But now days it's eaiser to buy a stock Sti Edge and go compete straight out of the box. Internals are way better, lock up and fit is nice and tight. It comes down to $$ I guess. And what you wanna shoot, and how you want the gun set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 I guess that's what I don't get. I recently picked a 16-40 up, and while I've only put about 300 rounds through it, it hasn't stopped yet. I gave $850 for it with four mags, two of which have Dawson basepads, and it was ready to go shoot. What I am trying to figure out is why everyone wants an STI while a Para will cost significantly less. My main question is this: what makes an Edge so much more desirable than a 16-40? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leath4m Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Ok, I'll list some features you get standard with an Edge. Now I'm just talkin about IPSC here. Hand fitted bull barrel, ambi extended saftie, lowered ejection port, bomar style sights, mag well, match grade hammer, tool steel internals, checkered front strap and main spring, high ride beaver tail, front and rear cocking serrations, all made out of bar stock and hand fitted and laped. I got mine here hard chromed with two mags for AUS$2900. I can't buy all the bits and build one for that price. And mine shoots 14mm five shot groups off a rest at 7 yards and sub 2" groups at 25 yards free hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sschultz Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I have two paras a 18-9 LDA and a 16-40 Limited with a 6 inch 9mm upper on it for 3 gun. I put a aftec in the 16 40 and the 6 inch upper had the new extractor. My only gripe with para is the availability of mags. I can't believe it would take two or three years to design a mag. Not sure what the issue is but I bought STI mags for mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 So is all that really worth the extra $750-$1500? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDee Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I've known several shooters who really liked their Paras, particularly the 16-40. My own experience with a 12-45 LDA was less than optimal. It went back to the factory so many times I just bought something else. Also, at that time, in the early 2000's, mags were super hard to find. They are supposed to be much higher quality these days, but I just have had better luck with other brands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leath4m Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 To me it is for sure. But you may be looking for a different set up. When I did my old Para up I was sponsored, so I put everything on it I wanted. Then it ended up a AUS$45000 gun. I'm just trying to show the difference, and maybe why you are not seeing many Paras out and about. It's not that I dislike em, they just end up dearer when properly set up for competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I'm shooting my third Para now. Started with a P-14, which was box stock, ran fine and I only got rid of it for the added capacity of a P-16. The P-16 was substantially worked over before I bought it, and it ran fine for MANY thousands of rounds. I got rid of it because I was switching to Open div. Recently I bought a Pro Comp 40, which I am a little disappointed with. The trigger was terrible, but fixable. One of the reasons I bought it is a youtube video of Travis at 2013 shot show showing the gun off, and he mentioned they had a flat topped slide, which is a look I really like. But they don't have that anymore. Still, with a better trigger parts in it, I think this will be a fine single stack gun. I've only got a couple hundred rounds through it at this point but haven't had any failures, so I'm encouraged at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Lots of early ones had problems with barrels not fit properly and endless broken links and other issues as a result. That, combined with substandard parts, resulted in a crappy, unreliable gun. If you kept the frame and slide and replaced everything else, it was fine, but for the cost, you might as well start with an STI frame and Caspian slide which is what pretty much everyone did. New ones aren't much better in terms of parts quality or fit and finish. I looked at them at SHOT Show and again at NRA and thought they were crap. Personally, I'd buy a Rock Island copy before I bought a Para. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I guess that's what I don't get. I recently picked a 16-40 up, and while I've only put about 300 rounds through it, it hasn't stopped yet. I gave $850 for it with four mags, two of which have Dawson basepads, and it was ready to go shoot. What I am trying to figure out is why everyone wants an STI while a Para will cost significantly less. Or a more general question is: "What I am trying to figure out is why everyone wants an STI while a Para (SA, Colt, RI, etc) will cost significantly less." It depends. Mass made guns are a lot like mass made cars: if you get a good one, you get a real value and a dependable product. If you get a dog.... you get a nightmare that spends all it's time getting worked on. And there seem to be a lot of dogs and more than there used to be.... With a 1911, there really is only one right way to build one and it requires having parts in tight spec and some parts being fitted to others. Mass makers can't afford fitting pieces, but semi custom makers like STI, SVI, Wilson et al can and do. So you get a better gun. That's not to say none of their guns ever have problems, but when they do, you generally get excellent response and it's made right. And (at least to my knowledge) the better makers still have many gunsmiths in the process and flea-bitten junk just doesn't get out the door. Most mass maker have fired all the true gunsmiths.... at least SW has but that's another story. Anyway, that's just my opinion. I think the "next level up" from mass made is the best value for 1911's and the performance and resale values reflect it. So, to answer your question about why people want to pay more: because it's not what you pay, it's what you get for the money. EDIT TO ADD: I'm not a snob about guns, I own CZ, Beretta, Ruger, SW, Browning and in fact all of the guns I own EXCEPT my STI 1911's are mass made guns so I am not averse to them. But in the case of STI (at least historically) you can spend about $300 more and get a whole lot more for the money. Edited July 22, 2014 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastphil Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I shot a Para for a few years and really liked it. The only issues I had was getting STI mag to run, but after that it ran great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastphil Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I decided to cerakote it tungsten grey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 I like that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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