Strobe Flash Rifle Targets

[D.Hayden]

I've only seen them at SMM3G, as a shooter I liked them

How many people use these in matches?

What are some pitfalls?

How long will the batteries last? (1 squad, 2, the whole day?)

In one of our typical matches, all rifle steel must be hit twice... will these reliably cycle fast enough?

Corded vs. wireless sensors?

Thanks, Dave

[Benelli Chick]

I think you need multiple on each target.

If one flasher gets shot or broken, you can't tell if it's the only one on the target. And you can end up with reshoots once you figure out it's not working.

Pitfalls:

Forget to turn them on and then the first squad is very confused and frustrated

Pricey

If you don't cover them well, rain can cause issues

Strong wind can cause issues if they are not attached well enough

Wireless - lot's of parts with batteries

Time consuming to set-up especially with wires to bury etc

The steel you attach it to needs to have some wiggle, but not too much. It needs to wiggle a bit when hit, but not when blown!

Batteries can last more than a full day, if you are careful to turn them off at night.

The wireless ones are best, as someone always manages to shoot the wires, even if you bury it!

I like them a lot. When you hit it and the flashbulbs go off (we usually have at least 3) it feels like it's having a party for you!

DEnise

[Flatland Shooter]

I've been looking into these for practice sessions. So far I've only found two companies that supply them.

The first is MGM targets. Not much info out there but based on the quality of their other products, they should be pretty good.

The second is offered by Caldwell. These appear to have a clamp much like that on a set of car battery jumper cables that attach to the target stand. The advertising indicates a 1 to 2 second delay required between shots.

The only thing that has kept me from buying one is I don't know if they will work with my homemade wood stands. Just how much movement is needed to set one off?

Bill

[Benelli Chick]

We get enough vibration from a stationary MGM full-size UPSC steel on the older steel tube stands.

It's more a vibration type thing though our sensors may be different than yours.

We have the old flash units from Flash Target, but Flash Target are no longer. Those are the ones MGM sells. They bought them after the owner passed.

There is a delay on the flash unit as it builds up the next flash.

They are units like the flash bulbs on old cameras! I can remember those...but, I think I just dated myself. I remember film...and even polaroids!

[MarkCO]

Obviously I have used and set up the RM3G flashers from Flash Target and have one at my club as well. Have not used the Caldwell unit, but the way they have it shown in their photos and such, it won't last long.

The best way to set them up is to literally use AR500 steel protection and run the cable through that to 10 to 30 feet away on a 20 degree angle back behind the target. At distances past about 400 yards, they are useful for the ROs since they do not have to binocular the targets. For the top shooters, the delay can frustrate them, but overall the delay is pretty short. I am sure there are a few shooters that shoot faste enough to double the target and the RO won't get positive feedback. I was able to do that on a full sized IPSC at 550 yards. So if you need 2 hits, you should make them shoot something else in between those 2 shots. Our batteries last for a little more than a day...good idea to change batteries in the morning, or 100 shooters.

Inside 400 yards, I do not think they offer much benefit over other options.

[kurtm]

I feel that they are a very bad target indicator especially for a major match. They will be working just fine and then a wire gets cut or the batteries quit....but since it flashed earlier, the R.O. just starts thinking the squad shooting just can't hit. I have seen a couple of squads shoot at those things with nary a flash due to the above problems and the whole time being assured "it works perfectly" because it was flashing earlier. Once we finally "conned" the R.O. in going down range and hitting the target with a hammer, it didn't flash.... batteries were out.Our squad got a shoot, but the squad before us "were just poor marksmen" while I watched it never flashed for them either.

Edited July 9, 2014 by kurtm

[AustinT]

That sounds familiar Kurt, I think I was at whatever that match was. If you're going to use them, i think it's a good idea to have redundant flashers like Denise said. Even when the batteries run out unexpectedly, it's "well it was working for the last squad, you're missing". What do you think think that clangy noise is, chief??

[MarkCO]

I feel that they are a very bad target indicator especially for a major match. They will be working just fine and then a wire gets cut or the batteries quit....but since it flashed earlier, the R.O. just starts thinking the squad shooting just can't hit. I have seen a couple of squads shoot at those things with nary a flash due to the above problems and the whole time being assured "it works perfectly" because it was flashing earlier. Once we finally "conned" the R.O. in going down range and hitting the target with a hammer, it didn't flash.... batteries were out.Our squad got a shoot, but the squad before us "were just poor marksmen" while I watched it never flashed for them either.

That is not the target, nor the indicator...that is staff that does not know what they are doing. First shooter, every squad, the RO should be on the binos and watch that target. At lunch and at night, the RO needs to go and check the target, maintain the target. You shot flash targets under my watch and hit them with nary a flinch.

[kurtm]

Nary a flinch ????....what a pompous reply!!! I'll have you know that unless I hold high right I never hit anything, and just about every shot I fire is a "night shot"

BTW both times it was with very seasoned R.O.s who really should have known better.....BUT......it was working earlier!

[toothandnail]

I've RO'd twice with them , both times they were misrable failures.

Both times we also had spotters with bino's

They were checked/fixed between every squad, most of the first day, we finally went spotters only.

That being said, we have been talking about experimenting with making our own. We just saw the Caldwell ones this week, may get one to test.

They're cheap enough

ETA; they were NICE when they worked, hence trying to find some reliable ones.

Edited July 10, 2014 by toothandnail

[Flatland Shooter]

I wonder if anyone has tried tying a vibration switch into photographic wireless hot shoe flash trigger. The switch and transmitter would be attached to the back of the steel plate and the receiver and flash unit could be as much as 30 meters away.

The trigger would run just over $20 and a cheap Speedlite would be just under $40. Then all you are looking at is a vibration switch and a tripod. You could probably run several targets on a single strobe flash unit.

For redundancy, they also have triggers with two receivers.

Worth thinking about. (Or maybe not.)

Bill

Edited July 10, 2014 by Flatland Shooter

[toothandnail]

Flatland,

That sounds like what I was thinking about doing, I just haven't figured out all the technical names of what I needed yet.

Lifes rough when,

you KNOW how to build something,

KNOW the items are available . . . . . . . but can't cause you don't have the name of the items you want.

I was going to hard wire a sensor, but if the wireless would be robust enough . . . . . . hmmmm

[Flatland Shooter]

Matt, here are the parts I'm looking at. Possibly a good starting point.

The vibration switch is the current stumbling point.

I'm also considering a simple stop plate type switch but that will require a part or two attached to both the gong and the target stand. Really want a design where nothing extends outside the diameter of the plate. Just one more thing to get shot and ruined.

Will keep searching. If possible, be sure to share your ideas.

Bill

http://www.amazon.com/CowboyStudio-NPT-04-Channel-Wireless-Receiver/dp/B002W3IXZW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404961293&sr=8-1&keywords=wireless+hotshoe+flash+trigger

http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Speedlite-Panasonic-Fujifilm-single-contact/dp/B004LEAYXY/ref=pd_sim_p_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1A5Y8VF9A58K3NTV22XJ

Edited July 10, 2014 by Flatland Shooter

[MarkCO]

I used a $6 bullet style low-voltage vibration switch from Amazon...that was the easy part.

[Flatland Shooter]

I used a $6 bullet style low-voltage vibration switch from Amazon...that was the easy part.

Thanks Mark.

I see several to choose from. Those run between 3.3 and 5.0 volts. Now how to tie it into the 12 volt transmitter.

If someone could come up with a robust combination camera hot shoe with a vibration switch, it would work.

Time for the experts to tell us how to make it work or tell us why it won't.

Bill

[ziebart]

I have never used a system like this http://www.ar15target.com/new/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102&Itemid=192, but it seems like it would reduce or eliminate most of the problems people have with "strobe" targets. The main issue is the cost, and a match would still likely want an RO to watch for hits. It also does not appear to be able to handle the 2 hits per target that you do at the match.

A rope to reset falling steel seems to be the cheapest, and easiest option to reduce the issues with RO's and calling steel. Once again though it does not solve your match requirements that it must be shot twice.

Edited July 10, 2014 by ziebart

[RiggerJJ]

lessons learned with strobe lites on targets at RM3G:

1.wired will work, but the wires must be behind ar500 steel or buried at least 10 inches. if the wire is exposed, it will get shot.

2.multiple flashes are a must for redundancy.

3.replace all receiver and flash batteries every morning.

4.teach anyone involved how to operate and repair.

5.wireless units work well and are the least problematic.

6.REDUNANCY, REDUNANCY, REDUNANCY!

We have used the wireless units I built for the past 3-4 years on longer ranges. Before that, we used the wired units. Last year we had 4 flash units and 3 transmitter units on the 1400 yard MRAD 338 target and they worked well. the 1st morning we had a problem with the 500 yard target system working, seems that the boys that turned on the 1400 yard target forgot to turn on the 500 yard system, and the CRO had not been briefed, so he turned on the flash units but did not turn on the receivers, so no flashy until I came on the stage... a few on the 1st squad got a reshoot...

The Cowboy Studio 4 channel transmitters and receiver sets work well, but they must have the Cowboy Studio flash units, as the receivers will not set off most other flash units.

I use a home security system glass breakage vibration sensor switch converted from closed/momentary open to open/momentary closed for the sensor on the back of the target. I use 2 wired in parallel plugged into each transmitter with a mini stereo plug, and put at least two of these transmitter units on the back of each target. each target is on its own channel. at the end of each day, turn off the flash, receiver, and unplug the sensors from the transmitter to conserve batteries. the transmitter uses a garage door opener battery, so they don't need replacing very often. The receivers use 2 triple As, the CS flashes use 2 double As. Set 3-4 flash/receiver units at an angle behind and away from the target at least 15-20 feet. I usually just duct tape them onto a wooden stake drove into the ground 4-5 feet high.

there is probably more, just can't pull it up right now...

jj

Edited July 10, 2014 by RiggerJJ

[Flatland Shooter]

there is probably more, just can't pull it up right now...

jj

Excellent information. I'd ask for more details but probably couldn't follow it enough to build my own.

Bill

[Moltke]

Used a flashbulb target this weekend and even in the middle of the day it was bright as the sun. Properly buried the cord was not struck and our 500 yard target was easily called as hit.