My shadow and fading accuracy?

[JoakimGR]

Hi.

I have about 7-8k rounds through my Shadow, and it shoots really low now. Before it shot POA->POI at 25metres.

Does anyone have any ideas? I have the SS guiderod, could that do something with the low hits?

At 30metres, aiming at the center of the IPSC A-zone, i hit just in the line between A and C, and often down in the C-zone.

I dont think i am flinching, because it seems too consistent.

[Andreas]

Unless the groups have opened up, I'd simply install a shorter front sight and call it a day.

[justaute]

Did you bench-shoot? What about asking another person to shoot your Shadow? It always helps to confirm the issue with another shooter. As of now, there are just too many possibilities. First, eliminate as many simple ones as possible.

Hi.

I have about 7-8k rounds through my Shadow, and it shoots really low now. Before it shot POA->POI at 25metres.

Does anyone have any ideas? I have the SS guiderod, could that do something with the low hits?

At 30metres, aiming at the center of the IPSC A-zone, i hit just in the line between A and C, and often down in the C-zone.

I dont think i am flinching, because it seems too consistent.

[eric4069]

Maybe you have developed a firmer, more consistent grip. I find this lowers POI a little.

Eric

[emjei]

Gun is no good ...sell it to me....#jokiiiing

Unless you do want to sell

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[blind bat]

I agree Andreas. Grouping is the true test, presuming the symptoms occured gradually. My stock barrel lasted over 20k rounds before the groups became unacceptable at >=30y. I did see a M&P barrel with ~100k rounds that cracked right where the barrel meets the chamber. Head shots at 7y would hit center of the body. I'd take a good look at your sights especially the adjustible rear if applicable. Rare but other possible causes: Check the slide for cracks, bushing under the front sight, damage to the barrel or slide lugs, bent or broken slide lock. Is the firing pin strike centered on the primer?

[trgt]

Next time maybe first do a group at 5 or 7 meters to get a specific aiming point, then walk it back from there with groups at 15/20/25/30 meters, aimed at the first group, slow fire/accuracy, to help get a sense of what is going on.

[JoakimGR]

I will try more this week, really need to work this out, level3 match this first weekend, and a Stoeger-class next weekend.

When the barrel is worn, will it throw the shots all over, or in a specific direction?

I have not tried benching it yet.

[asimonp79]

Well you know every time I read that people played with sights ( installed front 5mm~ 7.5mm) and want to see what is the differnce I always suggest the bore laser.

I use the laser ammo - works great in all my CZ's

That said - 25 yards is a distance that the triger work of the finger is felt- so I would do as already advised- benchrest, another shooter, the better the shooter - the better.

[JGus]

You say you have a class with Stoeger coming up this weekend? A few months ago we had a class with Ben Stoeger and Matt Mink. At the start of the class they asked if anyone was unsure if their gun was "zeroed?" If so, they would stand at approximately 20 yards and free hand style shoot the gun in question to see if POA=POI. I'm sure Ben will do the same at your class, which might be a real big help to determine if your gun is at POA=POI. Because of my crappy shooting skills, I was only about 60%-70% sure I was zeroed (I had been shooting the gun only a few weeks at that point). Just to make sure I had him shoot my CZ and it was dead on POA=POI.

[mgardner]

Is the pin that holds the front sight and bushing there?

[eric4069]

You say you have a class with Stoeger coming up this weekend? A few months ago we had a class with Ben Stoeger and Matt Mink. At the start of the class they asked if anyone was unsure if their gun was "zeroed?" If so, they would stand at approximately 20 yards and free hand style shoot the gun in question to see if POA=POI. I'm sure Ben will do the same at your class, which might be a real big help to determine if your gun is at POA=POI. Because of my crappy shooting skills, I was only about 60%-70% sure I was zeroed (I had been shooting the gun only a few weeks at that point). Just to make sure I had him shoot my CZ and it was dead on POA=POI.

So what happened at the class? Did you ask Ben to shoot a group with your gun? He did that for a couple shooters at the class I attended as well.

Eric

[pmt]

Different load?

Clean it recently?

[basman]

147 vs. 124's?

How many rounds on the barrel?

Edited June 10, 2014 by basman

[JoakimGR]

I clean it regularly.

The load is just about the same.

Guesstimate on the roundcount on the barrel is 9-10k rounds, where ~2.5k is 124gr factory load (Magtech, Geco, Sellier & Berlot), the rest is 124gr Frontier with 4.7gr VV N340, and now recently 4.5gr N320.

The pin for the front sight is there. I have a smaller front sight lying around, i think the one on the gun was changed just before i got the gun.

[JoakimGR]

The class with Ben is next weekend (Friday/Saturday) this past weekend he shot a match here in Norway, and training with the national team Monday - Thursday. Open classes Friday-Saturday, and a one-day class on Sunday.

[Prov1x]

I clean it regularly.

The load is just about the same.

Guesstimate on the roundcount on the barrel is 9-10k rounds, where ~2.5k is 124gr factory load (Magtech, Geco, Sellier & Berlot), the rest is 124gr Frontier with 4.7gr VV N340, and now recently 4.5gr N320.

The pin for the front sight is there. I have a smaller front sight lying around, i think the one on the gun was changed just before i got the gun.

4.5gr of VVN320 with 124gr frontier bullet? Isn't that a little hot on the power factor?

I use 3.8gr of the same powder with 124gr bullet and sit at 130pf out of my cz.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Prov1x

[JoakimGR]

4.5gr VV N320 gives me an average of 1050fps

[Torogi]

I had the same issue too. 147gr BC bullets, maybe mixed powders. Win231, then N320 then Solo1000. All is well until maybe 10k after. At that time I was using Solo1000. Accuracy was erratic at 25yds, then it started to tumble.

Same everything from the start as far as ammo profile. I tried all possible combinations, nothing worked. From different OAL, powder, crimp, clean barrel etc. I ended up changing bullet to 135gr. I thought it was more accurate than 147s from the get go. Ive never shot that much As with the 147s when I switched to 135s.

Ymmv.

[AdamM]

Here is what I've discovered about the CZ SP-01 barrels. They are too big. The first one that came with the pistol was defective, so I sent that back to CZC and they replaced it. I had bought a 2nd one, so that I wasn't without the gun while the defective one was going back and forth.

I slugged all 3 barrels and all 3 were 0.3550 to 0.3555. Normally a 9mm barrel should be about 0.354. Since I was shooting 147 grain Ibejiheads (coated lead bullets), I was getting terrible leading and about 6 out of 100 shots would tumble. I *never* got leading in any of my other guns with the bullets. Normally 9mm lead bullets are sized to 0.356. Since the barrel is too big, they would lead up badly and also cause them to tumble. I have since gotten his 0.357 bullets instead and all the leading and tumble issues have gone away.

So that is my 2 cents worth. Take the time to slug your barrel and see if that is your issue.

Edited June 10, 2014 by AdamM

[BeerBaron]

I found a similar thing, but found that most bullets sized 0.355. I've had great success shooting those sized 0.356 and even 0.3565. I've not gone to .0357. My barrel was 0.355.

I think something is really wrong if you are needing 4.5gn of N320 to make just 130pf.

I have another question. what OAL are you running?

I shoot frontiers too but found (especially with the 124gn RN 0.356) that they were much more accurate with short OAL.

At 1.100 the group size was fairly wide. at 1.070 it was much, much tighter and shooting really nicely and consistently. you also don't need a very tight crimp. basically you should be just knocking off the bell with the crimp die.

so I would try the shorter OAL, but as barrels get 'shot out' what happens is speed drops. so the fact that you need that much powder to hit 130pf tells me you're either shooting in beyond normal weather or maybe the barrel is shot. it really should last a lot more than 10K rounds though. like 5 times that.

[JoakimGR]

Okay, let me clarify - especially since i now have my papers in front of me

4.1gr N320 avg 976fps

(5 shot: 911, 995, 1010, 966, 998)

4.3gr N320 avg 1037.4fps

(5 shot, 961, 1067, 1059, 1064, 1036)

4.7gr N320 avg 1135.6

(5 shot, 1109, 1140, 1132, 1156, 1141)

I even tried 5 grains, average 1189.75 (4 shots, 1167, 1205, 1197, 1190)

I chronoed Magtech the same day, 124gr Magtech 9B(?), average 1163.2fps (5 shots, 1166, 1102, 1195, 1179, 1174)

I use the 4.3gr load, i doublechecked yesterday.

I also use Handler & Naterman bullets now, they are .356 and the Frontier are .355 caliber.

I have no tumbling as far as i can see, i even stretched it out for a 50metres group, but it was hard when i didnt get a stable point to aim.

Class with Stoeger tomorrow, stoked

[CZ85Combat]

I took Ben's class last October, It is a good class!

[BeerBaron]

are you shooting the frontier flat points? try the 124gn round nose which are .356. I thought they shot and grouped tighter.

I guess the question is this. if the group size at 25 meters is say under 3 inch then you simply need to adjust the sights to bring your POI up to your POA.

If however the group size is getting wider AND it's shooting low you have a problem.

FTR I don't think the steel guiderod has anything to do with it. I've used both poly and steel and found no discernible difference between them.

The other question was around OAL. What OAL are you loading and have you tried different OAL's and checked the group size? I found with the frontiers the groupings got tighter as I went shorter.

I'm still not sure why your N320 loads seem to be getting such a low velocity. it could be the 0.355 projies? your 1037 fps average with 4.3gn and a 124gn pill should be achievable with about 3.7 or 3.8gn of N320.

enjoy the class.

[JoakimGR]

Had the class, and Ben shot the gun. It goes a little low, but mainly it was me.

I have apparently become a worse shooter, probably because i have practiced way less now than last year.

I have checked my front sight, and that is the 7.5mm one, for adjustable rear sight. I am going to order that sight now, just for convenience.

When i load Frontier, i use the plated RN, restruck .355" 124gr ones.

OAL is 29.00mm

I am also going to invest in a Dillon 1050 now. Tired of my Lee Loadmaster, and its hickups with primerfeeds..

The class with Ben was awesome. He really knows how to bring out the best in every shooter.

I have a videoclip from the class, he told me to show him something...

I think i'll buy the adjustable rear sight, zero the gun and get back to you.

Thanks for all feedback!