katit Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) I will give as much history as possible so you can help me with ideas on what to check.. I had 6!!! light strikes today. 2 fired on a second time. 1. Gun have optional short reset trigger installed 2. Gun has maybe ~2k rounds through. 3. I only field strip/clean since new and last time I did it was maybe 600-700 rounds ago. I didn't clean it to see what kind of issue it might cause.. 4. I didn't have ANY mulfunctions until today. 5. One round was with high seated CCI primer, so thats a problem with my reload. 6. Other 5 is all Wolf primers I just started to use. They seat deep enough. So, is it primer issue? Out of 5 only 1 fired on second try.. Any experience with Wolf primers? Seems like they seat little dipper (not as tall??). I have 10k of them and really need to make it work.. Thank you P.S. I was really sceptical when people complained about Wolf/Tula. But first box of 100 and 5 light strikes? Kind of convincing... Too much even for practice ammo. Edited March 31, 2014 by katit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradthegunmaniac Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 What hammer spring 13.5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonJeong Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Tulas will seat slightly deeper because they are shorter by about 8%. Look up my thread on Tula primers. You will need extended firing pin and Tulas will be just as good as rest Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yes, Tulas are harder, so all else equal you will get more light strikes, if you really want to shoot Tulas, order an extended firing pin, reduced power firing pin return spring and 13# hammer spring (maybe the 15# as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee G Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If it's a CZ Custom shadow that was made in the past 3 or 4 years it should already have an extended firing pin, 13# mainspring and adjusted firing pin spring unless you specified something lighter when you ordered it. This set up should break any primers. With only 2K through it I don't think springs would be the problem. The first thing I would check is to make sure the firing pin channel is clean and free of debris and dry. The firing pin and the channel should be dry. There is no reason to lube this area. Doing so will lead to excessive buildup of gunk which will prevent the firing pin from moving freely. Have you had any other work done to the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feralshooter Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) It's the primers. Don't mess up your gun trying to make them work. If you need to use them then put in the extended FP and a heavy main spring, then accept that some will not go off no matter how hard the hammer hits. As Lee said, cleaning your FP channel could help. Edited March 31, 2014 by Feralshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katit Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yes, the gun is "stock" CZ sp01 shadow CUSTOM from czcustom.com. Only thing I added to it was short reset trigger(they put it in). So, whatever they do to it - all standard stuff, I did not alter anything. And 2k rounds I shot before Wolf primers were all my reloads with CCI/Winchester SP primers FP channel can be an issue, yes, there is lube in there because when I clean slide with CLP or Ballistol - there is some that leak in anyway. I seat all primers as deep as they go and shellplate is tight on my 650XL So, if it's Shadow made end of 2013 - it should have extended firepin already. If it's primers - then?? I understand part about seating them deeper, but those should go off on second try? No? I have 4 rounds that look normal and I fired them repeatedly many times and they didn't go off. Does it mean primers just "bad" or I can do something so the start to go of more reliably? So far I see that I need to get other primers at least for match ammo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cguy1177 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Check your FP channel as noted. SP01 tactical with CGW ext. FP and 13lb mainspring lights off my tula SPP 100% and even ignites wolf SRM's. not sure about any diff. between CGW ext. FP and CZC. I Load on a 1050 with primer depth adjusted to work. I have heard of some wolf/tula lots having QC issues ( missing anvils on 1% etc ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feralshooter Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If it's primers - then?? I understand part about seating them deeper, but those should go off on second try? No? I have 4 rounds that look normal and I fired them repeatedly many times and they didn't go off. Does it mean primers just "bad" or I can do something so the start to go of more reliably? So far I see that I need to get other primers at least for match ammo.. Exactly. Some primers will not go off no matter what, they are duds. I haven't used Tula or wolf but have read many similar problems with them. If you can accept the 1-6% failure rate for practice ammo fair enough. You will definitely want to find more reliable primers for matches though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I have been using Murom primers which I understand are the same as wolf. I have had no light strikes in about 1500. using standard CZ firing pin, 13lb mainspring (but it;s old and feels a bit light, maybe 12lb), standard FP return spring. I'd give the gun a good clean first and try again. I do make sure they are seated as deep as they go (can adjust primer seat depth on my press). these murom do give light strikes in my stock II tanfog though. give the gun a good clean. after 700 rounds it's due for a field strip and a good blast out and re-lube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The CGW's firing pin is longer than the CZ custom pin. I would give that a whirl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katit Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 I checked. Already have extended firing pin. Ordered lighter firing pin spring. Will see.. Took apart and other than some light lube there was nothing in a hole and firing pin moved free and nice. Even if it starts to work with lighter spring - it will take a while for me to build confidence in those primers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I checked. Already have extended firing pin. Ordered lighter firing pin spring. Will see.. Took apart and other than some light lube there was nothing in a hole and firing pin moved free and nice. Even if it starts to work with lighter spring - it will take a while for me to build confidence in those primers... Read what i wrote again. My guns didnt run with the CZ custom "extended" pins. They do however run just fine with the CGW's extended pins as they are LONGER than the CZ custom offering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katit Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 Stuart said that he measured and they are no different (CZC vs CGW's). I ordered one from CGW's just out of curiosity, will post back when I get it. I also bought lightened firing pin spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Let me know if I'm wrong. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 if you haven't done the order yet, cancel the reduced firing pin spring. the CGW extended firing pin comes with the reduced power firing pin spring for free. no need to order another one (though I guess it can be a spare). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaylanGivens Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I ordered a CGW extended firing pin and several light firing pin springs... The ext firing pin came with a black spring... the light springs were silver... different... I used the light fp spring that came extra... Curious why two springs that are supposed to be the same are different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Measure the coil diameter, they might just be from different suppliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 yeah pretty sure my CGW pin came with the silver spring in it. and I think the extra ones I got were black!?! lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katit Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) Ok, I received lightened spring from CZC and firing pin from CGW Firing pins OAL: CZC: 2.500 CGW: 2.502 Longer? Yes, but I wonder if this is just normal wear on mine 2 thou can be just polished back vs brand new with machining mark. So, it looks like they ARE the same. CGW pin has more tapered/sharp nose and CZC is more rounded CZC pin heavier. There is more meat, less of this "thin" area. More force needed to get it moving? But more intercia? Springs: On a picture it shows what pins come with and CZC lightened spring on top CGW smallest in diameter. Original one I had most tough spring and feels that way. If I compare CGW spring to CZC spring when they sit in a slide - they "feel" the same to me. It's not scientific but it is what it is All in all, I will install lightened CZC spring with original firing pin and keep going. I will use CCI's for competitions. CGW pin will be a spare, I didn't have any spare parts for the gun, now I do Edited April 4, 2014 by katit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katit Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 Tested lightened spring, same thing, light strikes like 5 times out of 100. ... and I went home with DQ. Hammer slipped when I was lowering it. Got too "confident" with this thing. Need to be really careful next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feralshooter Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Exactly. Some primers will not go off no matter what, they are duds. I haven't used Tula or wolf but have read many similar problems with them. If you can accept the 1-6% failure rate for practice ammo fair enough. You will definitely want to find more reliable primers for matches though. Sorry to hear about the DQ. Hard way to learn a lesson but I'll bet the lesson sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katit Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 Yeah, DQ itself does bother me much. I'm glad everyone is OK and I didn't get injured. I only wish THAT round had a bad primer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 yeah talk about bad luck! slipped hammer (so probably not a full strength hit) and primer goes off... d'oh! I double chcked btw. my CGW firing pin did come with the silver colour spring on it. the spare reduced power FP spring I bought (also from CGW) was black. I don't think there is any difference. as I test I installed the follow into my shadow mate/orange 2012. 8.5lb hammer spring CGW extended FP with the reduced power (silver) FP spring. Otherwise the gun is standard. I haven not polished the action etc. Does have a comp hammer which comes from the factory. I've only done a basic function test with 2 full mags of a mix of federal SPP and Murom SPP (I had heard these are the same as wolf/tula but I'm not sure). All rounds fired just fine. Second mag I shot as fast as I could pull the trigger and no problems. Yes it's a small sample size, but I'll try more as I go. first sign is encouraging as 8.5lb is a very light mainspring. the hammer hitting the firing pin sounds like a little 'flap' noise now! Perhaps the murom are similar to wolf/tula but with better quality control? I've not had a dud in those in about 3,000 or so now. these are what they look like: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) it may also depend which ones you get. I see they make a number of different small pistol primers. I believe the ones I get in the red packs are the "KVB-9S" which are small pistol for sporting loads. They make a "KVB9" for 'standard pistol loads' which may be harder or less QC? I don't know. Have a look here and see if you can determine which you have if Murom really are tula/wolf? They do list "Tula Cartridge Works" as a 'partner' but that doesn't guarantee that the primers are the same in both brands. http://www.mpzflame.ru/production/primers/ Edited April 7, 2014 by BeerBaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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