Optimum velocity for 69 grain .223 loads for an AR

[SteveU]

I've just started reloading 69 grain ammo for use in 3-gun. I have read some posts about 2700 fps being an optimal velocity for accuracy. I started with a friend's data and worked up some loads that seemed accurate (< 1 moa at 100 yards) and when I went to chrono I was surprised to find velocity at 2500-2600 fps.

I really need to load some more and test it out extensively at 2-300 yards which is the average high for the 3-gun matches I shoot locally. Before I do I had a couple questions:

The data is:

JP CTR-2 18" 1/8 Wylde barrel

69 grain smk

2.255 +/- .005

CCI SRP

Benchmark 22.4-22.7 grains

22.7 avg 2588

22.4 avg 2501

Questions:

Is there a minimum velocity for 3 gun accuracy?

Is there any reason to try to push the bullets closer to 2700?

If so, is there a downside to the extra 100 + fps?

How fast are YOUR 69 grain loads?

Thank you.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Steve Umansky

[Hi-Power Jack]

Are you sure you need heavy bullets at 300 yards?

Would less expensive, faster 55 grain bullets be just as good?

[SteveU]

Let's set that discussion aside for a moment and say that the 69 are all I have and I wanted to try them.

[jtielke]

My 68 gr are at 2,910 fps so it matches my BDC very closely.

[mwx40x40]

Let's set that discussion aside for a moment and say that the 69 are all I have and I wanted to try them.

Barrel length will be important when people respond, but if it makes you feel any better 69MK with 24.5gr Varget in my 18" SPR WOA barrel avg 2595 fps.

As for 69's needed to hit targets at 300? Not really, but there is a definite difference in the way LaRues and other steel targets respond to them vs 55's.

[Fullauto_Shooter]

I get 2820 fps with 69gr SMKs over 23.4gr of AA2230 out of an 18" barrel. It works for me and makes LR steel move better than 55gr bullets, which helps if the steel has to fall (LaRues) or react (MGM flashers).

[Alaskapopo]

I've just started reloading 69 grain ammo for use in 3-gun. I have read some posts about 2700 fps being an optimal velocity for accuracy. I started with a friend's data and worked up some loads that seemed accurate (< 1 moa at 100 yards) and when I went to chrono I was surprised to find velocity at 2500-2600 fps.

I really need to load some more and test it out extensively at 2-300 yards which is the average high for the 3-gun matches I shoot locally. Before I do I had a couple questions:

The data is:

JP CTR-2 18" 1/8 Wylde barrel

69 grain smk

2.255 +/- .005

CCI SRP

Benchmark 22.4-22.7 grains

22.7 avg 2588

22.4 avg 2501

Questions:

Is there a minimum velocity for 3 gun accuracy?

Is there any reason to try to push the bullets closer to 2700?

If so, is there a downside to the extra 100 + fps?

How fast are YOUR 69 grain loads?

Thank you.

My bread and butter long range load with 77 grainers is going 2550. Worry about accuracy over speed.

[SteveU]

Ok good. Thanks.

[JPeel]

In my first load development for my 18" JP lwc barrel I'm running 2850 fps with 69 smk's over 24 gr of 8208xbr, cci 400 primers, oal 2.250 to 2.255. I was able to push 2900 at 24.5 gr but was over gassed on the initial setup of the gun and so didn't fully test up to the max.

But focus on what gets you the best group, not how fast it flies. At 300 yards its not in the air long enough for wind to be much of a factor.

[gose]

In my CTR-02 w 18" mid barrel, it seemed like the groups got better with velocity. Best groups were with VV140 and about 0.5gr above max with VV 140 for a velocity of 2925 fps.

That load was pretty hot though, so I dialed it down about 100 fps, with a fairly minimal loss off accuracy.

Edited March 3, 2014 by gose

[SteveU]

Good answers, thanks

[bigedp51]

Reloading for Semiauto Rifles

C.E. Harris

Handloader Magazine 139

May-June 1989

[reptoid]

Note the date in the above chart. Great info but remember, that most likely was a 20" barreled AR.

My most accurate load for long range (300+yds) in my 16" 1 in 9" barrel using the 69 SMK chronos 2580 with an SD of 5 and an ES of 10. I recently chrongraphed some "Aussie" brand factory match ammo which is loaded with the 69 SMK bullet out of the same rifle. It's velocity was 2601 with an SD of 11 and an ES of 34 and the accuracy was good, but not quite equal to my load.

Edited March 4, 2014 by reptoid

[RDA]

My most accurate load for long range (300+yds) in my 16" 1 in 9" barrel using the 69 SMK chronos 2580 with an SD of 5 and an ES of 10. I recently chrongraphed some "Aussie" brand factory match ammo which is loaded with the 69 SMK bullet out of the same rifle. It's velocity was 2601 with an SD of 11 and an ES of 34 and the accuracy was good, but not quite equal to my load.

Care to share that load? That is a really low SD. What kind of accuracy did you see?

What "Aussie" brand ammo? I assume you mean Australian Outback Ammo, I have some of that but haven't shot it yet, I'll have to do that and compare to my ladder of 69g ammo I recently loaded with four different powders.

Edited March 4, 2014 by RDA

[reptoid]

My most accurate load for long range (300+yds) in my 16" 1 in 9" barrel using the 69 SMK chronos 2580 with an SD of 5 and an ES of 10. I recently chrongraphed some "Aussie" brand factory match ammo which is loaded with the 69 SMK bullet out of the same rifle. It's velocity was 2601 with an SD of 11 and an ES of 34 and the accuracy was good, but not quite equal to my load.

Care to share that load? That is a really low SD. What kind of accuracy did you see?

What "Aussie" brand ammo? I assume you mean Australian Outback Ammo, I have some of that but haven't shot it yet, I'll have to do that and compare to my ladder of 69g ammo I recently loaded with four different powders.

My most accurate load for long range (300+yds) in my 16" 1 in 9" barrel using the 69 SMK chronos 2580 with an SD of 5 and an ES of 10. I recently chrongraphed some "Aussie" brand factory match ammo which is loaded with the 69 SMK bullet out of the same rifle. It's velocity was 2601 with an SD of 11 and an ES of 34 and the accuracy was good, but not quite equal to my load.

Care to share that load? That is a really low SD. What kind of accuracy did you see?

What "Aussie" brand ammo? I assume you mean Australian Outback Ammo, I have some of that but haven't shot it yet, I'll have to do that and compare to my ladder of 69g ammo I recently loaded with four different powders.

That load uses AA2495BR powder and Rem 71/2 primer. My batch of that powder is quite old but still great so I don't think the charge level would be helpful as they have changed the powder from what I heard. It will consistently shoot 1/2 MOA out to 300+ if I do my part. A couple of my shooting buds have loads that are very close; one using IMR 4895 and the other using Varget. I've loaded IMR4895 with those same components and the accuracy was there, but slightly lower velocity and showed pressure signs sooner. Varget is a good bet to try with any heavy bullet (69 &up)

Yes, it was indeed "Australian Outback Ammo" Sorry about the incorrect name

[RDA]

That load uses AA2495BR powder and Rem 71/2 primer. My batch of that powder is quite old but still great so I don't think the charge level would be helpful as they have changed the powder from what I heard. It will consistently shoot 1/2 MOA out to 300+ if I do my part. A couple of my shooting buds have loads that are very close; one using IMR 4895 and the other using Varget. I've loaded IMR4895 with those same components and the accuracy was there, but slightly lower velocity and showed pressure signs sooner. Varget is a good bet to try with any heavy bullet (69 &up)

Yes, it was indeed "Australian Outback Ammo" Sorry about the incorrect name

Great, thanks. I have purchased a fair bit of IMR 8208 XBR and have some loads to test along with Varget, Reloader 15 and Vihtavuori N135 all using the same brass, primer and Sierra 69 BTHP. Once the weather breaks and my 16" LT PredatOBR arrives, I plan to test accuracy/chrono them all.

I thought you were trying to be coy about the Aussie ammo. I have some I have been meaning to test along with some Black Hills, I'll have to take them all to the range soon.

[fastshooter03]

You might want to save that varget for a longer barrel.

It won't make the velocity per grain that 8208 and others do in a 16" barrel.

The lowest SD and ES I've ever seen have come from PP2000mr but it is a bit boomy(loud!) and you have to use more than pretty much every other powder.

Nick

[RDA]

You might want to save that varget for a longer barrel.

It won't make the velocity per grain that 8208 and others do in a 16" barrel.

The lowest SD and ES I've ever seen have come from PP2000mr but it is a bit boomy(loud!) and you have to use more than pretty much every other powder.

Thanks. I bought the Varget mostly for test purposes, I know it is highly regarded amongst many but I am also aware of the metering issues and from what I can tell, 8208 XBR is potentially equal to or better than Varget and meters far better. I just wanted to be able to compare to it myself to see if I can discern a difference.

Any additional comments or experience with 8208 XBR?

[mwf008]

8208 shoots sub MOA out of my AR. I like it a lot, the only downside is they don't give 5.56 data like ramshot does. I get almost an extra 100 FPS using TACs book max for 5.56 as opposed to book max with 8208 .223. My next range trip will include testing 8208 above max to try to get the extra velocity.

[RDA]

8208 shoots sub MOA out of my AR. I like it a lot, the only downside is they don't give 5.56 data like ramshot does. I get almost an extra 100 FPS using TACs book max for 5.56 as opposed to book max with 8208 .223. My next range trip will include testing 8208 above max to try to get the extra velocity.

I look forward to your results.

And I would think you could work up carefully over .223 stated max (using data for other powders as a guide where they have data for .223 and data for 5.56 to gauge the incremental difference in powder and/or pressure) to determine if you could use 8208 XBR at higher levels in 5.56 applications. It may not generate any better accuracy but it might be worth evaluating.

[38superman]

My favorite load for my AR (20" barrel) is 25gr Varget behind the 69 gr SMK.

This produces around 2830 FPS at the muzzle.

I should add that I tested with Nosler brass which seems to use about 1/2 gr less powder to produce the same velocity.