Bangheadhere Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 So, I'm not intending to re-hash the debate over whether it matters or not, but does anyone have a solid handle on the 922r-compliance parts count for the Stoeger M3000? From what I've seen on the M2, there appears to be some question as to what the exact count might be. I've marked in red what seems to be the consensus. 27 C.F.R. 478.89 lists 20 parts: (1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings (2) Barrels (3) Barrel extensions (4) Mounting blocks (trunions) (5) Muzzle attachments (6) Bolts (7) Bolt carriers (8) Operating rods (9) Gas pistons (10) Trigger housings (11) Triggers (12) Hammers (13) Sears (not a discrete part on the M3000. Included with trigger) (14) Disconnectors (15) Butt stocks (16) Pistol grips (17) Forearms, hand guards (18) Magazine bodies (19) Followers (20) Floorplates So it appears that there are probably 12 foreign-made parts from this list. It seems a little squishy over whether the M3000 has both a (6) bolt and a (7) bolt carrier as defined here. If not, then the parts count would only be 11 and simply replacing the follower would get you to the magic 10 number. That being said, if the number is actually 12, establishing 922r compliance would require replacement of the follower and one additional part. Any ideas as to what? Are the freedom fighter m2 fire control kits interchangeable? Does anyone make a butt stock that would work? Anyone feel like writing a letter to the BATFE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 We are working on a set-screw adjustable US made disconnector to address one of the compliance parts, if this ends up being an issue. Best to focus on the least expensive parts to produce to achieve compliance. Followers are readily available from Nordic Components. An adjustable trigger that also addresses the geometry issue with the undercut hook may be another place people should look to kill two birds with one stone. There are indeed a separate bolt and bolt carrier. As on the AR15, if the bolt head can be removed from the carrier body, it is considered a separate part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangheadhere Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 In for one. Both, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Is not the mag cap on a shotgun effectively the "floor plate" if so, then the Nordic US made end cap fills the bill.... Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangheadhere Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I wondered that myself. I've seen information contrary to that position but nothing definitive/authoritative I could cite. Edited February 18, 2014 by Bangheadhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Unfortunately, that is one of those gray areas that can be up to the discretion of the agent making the call. It is nearly impossible to get a definitive answer from the ATF in a situation like that where it is not clearly defined. When I first got my FFL the guy who got me set up said a certain type of bound book from Brownell's was not ok to use even though it had an ATF approval number right on the front cover. Next inspector said that it was fine for gunsmithing but not transfers. Really best to just err on the safe side of any question, and not worry about the possible interpretation of semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amr Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 To bad an American made choke tube couldn't be considered a muzzle attachment ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeAZ Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) What are you talking about?.... 922 compliance for the m3000?..It's not a detachable mag fed shotgun/no pistol grip, etc.... explain please.... Edited February 21, 2014 by mike NM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Any semi auto shotgun that holds more than 5 rds falls under the provisions, as far as the language goes. Google "922r compliance shotgun". Not considered "suitable for sporting purposes" by their definition. Ironic, since we use them solely for sport! I can't remember seeing anybodies' home defense shotgun with a +9 magazine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Most people just save the headache and ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The shotgun wasnt designed to have greater than 5 rnd capacity. The extention is aftermarket, is it still an issue? I am not 100% schooled on 922r so i am asking not telling;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Also who in the world would check a shotgun with an extended mag since it doesnt look scary, no pistol grip, bayonet lug or folding stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammar Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Also who in the world would check a shotgun with an extended mag since it doesnt look scary, no pistol grip, bayonet lug or folding stock Every non-competitive shooter that has seen my 3-gun shotgun has thought different. Plenty of non-gun people, and those that only hunt haven't had the exposure to some of our gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeAZ Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Are we suffering from the evil "Black Gun" syndrome??.. Let me see....., if your shooting in a "sporting event", use the shotgun for sporting purposes (such as hunting), WHAT does "922" have to do with anything ???... I realize the shooting world is FULL of "range experts" and generally that "tube" sticking out PAST the muzzle end REALLY "bothers" most of them to the point that they start spouting legal / safety advice at you !!!!!.. Was with a buddy the other day shooting clay (load 2 rounds only) with a long tube Mossberg, had the wandering range guy in his little cart parked behind us for a long time counting "one / two", load one / two. Can't even remember how many time I've been asked about full auto stuff.... is that a "machine gun" or did I have a license for it, am I a cop (only cops can have machine guns you know)...Guess we should all buy Mossberg's , then all is well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I let those people especially shoot everything I own. Perhaps they will convert over to understand that not all guns are scary, even when they kinda look like military weapons. I also avoid those places that like to over regulate simple things, like loading 2 rounds while shooting clays for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Also who in the world would check a shotgun with an extended mag since it doesnt look scary, no pistol grip, bayonet lug or folding stock Every non-competitive shooter that has seen my 3-gun shotgun has thought different. Plenty of non-gun people, and those that only hunt haven't had the exposure to some of our gear. You might be surprised how many hunters have extended magazines on shotguns. In areas that have snow goose migration, we have been running extended mags for years, long before I had even heard of 3gun. Some guys bought saiga's just for the snows! its a ton of fun, but a pain to clean them all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmc Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 -----Original Message----->From: FIPB.Regulatory.Email.inquiries.FIPB.Regulatory.Email.inquiries@usdoj.gov>Sent: Feb 27, 2014 8:17 AM>To: >Subject: RE: 922r part count for Stoeger M3000 shotgun?>>The Stoeger M3000 has 12 of the 20 parts listed in 27 CFR 478.39.>>Out of the 20 parts, you have the following:>>*Frame>*Barrel>*Bolt>*Bolt Carrier>*Trigger Housing>*Trigger>*Hammer>*Disconnecter>*Buttstock>*Forearm>*Magazine>*Follower>>To be compliant with 922®, you would have to replace two of the above listed parts.>>We trust this correspondence has been responsive to your inquiry. Should you have any further questions, please contact your local ATF Industry Operations Office. A list of ATF Office telephone numbers can be found at http://www.atf.gov/content/contact-us/local-atf-office.>>Regards,>>Firearms Industry Programs Branch, ATF> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogtired Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I was under the impression that 922r is about manufacturing a gun from parts. The Benelli was the gun in question as it in one of its variants was named in the AWB. Conversion of the sporting version was easily accomplished by swapping parts to mimic the banned gun. Hence the shotgun hangup with 922r and compliance issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 So if I put on a nordic magazine and follower is it legal? Is it really an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1094 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 So if I put on a nordic magazine and follower is it legal? Is it really an issue? only if someone wants to in force it, or your conscious is in the way. Not following the law could end up badly for your right to own firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Nordic magazine is an add-on not a replacement for the existing tube. Does not qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 So is this an issue on the SBE, M2, or any other benneli out there? does everyone swap out parts to make it compliant? It seems that most of the talk circles around the M4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 It's an issue for all the imported guns but most simply ignore it since it's a law that's never enforced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Yes, the M4 requires 3 parts, the M2 requires 4 parts. A magazine tube extension does not satisfy the replacement. I would have thought the M3000 would need more than 2. The 1301C also has 922r issues. The SLP is made 922r compliant by FNH, so apparently they think it is an issue. Some ignore it, but some don't. For some, even a charge and a plea could end a career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Yea a silly violation would be a career ender for me... So mark are you making those disconnectors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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