waktasz Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I think I want to get the bottom of my trigger guard relieved a bit to facilitate a higher grip but I havn't seen many examples of it, anyone have any photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 there are also a lot of photos at Millennium Custom Guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 Thanks guys. Nice guns. I hope this isn't a silly question, but all of your pictures are of S*I guns, I imagine this modification can be done on a Para frame? I'm sending my gun out to EGW and am just finalizing everything I want done while it's out there, might as well get it all done now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Not so easily and with a risk of ruining your frame. But a pro like EGW won't screw it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The under-cutting will not be as pronounced as the plastic frames. But enough to allow you to get a higher grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I had a custom built .40 1911 done with a high cut trigger guard, and I liked it. Sorry no pics, it's back home in FLA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdt Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I recently had a Para done by EGW and I asked for some cutting under the trigger guard like my STI and George advised against it because of the thickness (or lack of) of material in that location before it starts getting into the mag catch area. Very small change in the trigger guard area. not worth it as per EGW on a Para. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 Thanks for the reply jdt, I thought that too upon looking at it but have yet to take the gun down completely and look at the material thickness in that area, but you answered my question perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 See if you can try a gun with this mod before you buy. Undercutting the trigger guard may reduce perceived muzzle flip, but I hated the way it made my gun index (before I swapped for a regular grip). I think there's a widespread belief that any trick mod you do to a grip is inherently good. I do not believe this to be so. Take it with a grain of salt as I'm probably the only person in USPSA that does not prefer the mod. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Take it with a grain of salt as I'm probably the only person in USPSA that does not prefer the mod. Wrong. I dislike it, too. Have EGW serrate the underside of the trigger guard for your weak hand. That's all you'll need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Make that 3 in a row. Try your gun as is for a while. When you take away plastic from under an STI trigger guard, eventually you will get to the same geometry as the original 1911 - smaller distance than stock STI between your middle finger and the top of the thumb safety. Not a well-known fact but when you do this your gun rotates relative to your arm & wrist and the muzzle points lower, i.e. you now have to bend your strongside arm MORE to get the sights up on the same target. If your gun points low for your hand to begin with, then hogging the trigger guard is not the way to go. BUT, if you feel an uncomfortable amount of stretch between your thumb & middle finger, than hogging is a beneficial mod. Same goes for a 1911 or STI that points high for you. Probably the ultimate way to "dial in" the pointing and comfort of your steel-frame gun is to do like Rob Leatham. Check out the gun photos on his website and see the different cut-off/rewelded trigger guards he has done. Read WHY he likes them done a certain way. It can change the whole personality of any steel-frame gun be it a Springfield, Para, Tanfoglio or 1911. steel gun limited uspsa bianchi ironsite steelchallenge open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 When you take away plastic from under an STI trigger guard, eventually you will get to the same geometry as the original 1911 - smaller distance than stock STI between your middle finger and the top of the thumb safety. Not a well-known fact but when you do this your gun rotates relative to your arm & wrist and the muzzle points lower Precisely the reason why I did it to my SVI. Without the cut under the triggerguard, when i gripped my gun naturally, it was pointing a bit too high for me (i.e. front sight raising out of the notch). I had then to bend my wrists in an uncomfortable way to have it sit back in the notch. waktasz, try the following: slowly draw your gun from the holster with closed eyes. Bring it to eye level paying attention to have the the most consistent, not tensed, grip on your gun. The one you feel comfortable with shooting. Then open your eyes: if you have learned a consistent draw, the front sight should be horizontally centered inside the rear sight notch. It might not be vertically aligned. If it sits high, a cut under the trigger guard might help you in rotating the gun inside your grip, allowing it to point naturally without having to over-bend your wrists. If it sits perfectly aligned, don't cut the grip under the trigger guard: you'll end up altering the natural aiming of your grip, and it might not be what you want to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 This confuses me: ...if you have learned a consistent draw, the front sight should be horizontally centered inside the rear sight notch. It might not be vertically aligned. If learning the draw centers the sight horizontally, why not vertically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joaquino Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 s..t, couldn't get the pic in sorry chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 This confuses me:...if you have learned a consistent draw, the front sight should be horizontally centered inside the rear sight notch. It might not be vertically aligned. If learning the draw centers the sight horizontally, why not vertically? Because, by having a relaxed (solid but not tensed) grip on your gun, with wrists bent to the amount you feel comfortable with, without putting tension in them by over-bending, it might happen that the grip angle is such taht the gun points a bit high. Of course, you could correct this by bending a little more your wrists, but that way you're introducing a tension element in your grip. The whole idea of the cut under the trigger guard is, IMHO, a way to slightly correct the vertical pointability of your gun, to suit it to your way of gripping it, allowing it to point correctly with the most natural grip you can have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 If you have a STI/SV frame, then there are plenty of shops that can do the mods for you. Advanced Performance Shooting does excellent work. If you have steel framed gun, then EGW can do the work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 But how could you ever realize that? There's no such thing as a "natural" grip because gripping and pointing a gun isn't a natural action. Your whole reference point for a correct grip is the grip that aligns the sights. I don't see how you get to a point where you say to yourself, "Gee the sights come up perfect every time but it'd be nice if my wrist were bent a little different." I'm not trying to be difficult, I just genuinely don't understand the idea of "natural" as it applies to gripping and pointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 MoNsTeR, I'll try to put my feelings in words, but I'm not sure it will make sense for anybody else than me... I pick up my gun from the holster, grip it and extend my arms in my shooting stance, aiming nowhere specially, for this reason I'll do it with my eyes closed. I am paying attention to my body feelings at this time: I want to feel totally comfortable, relaxed. I don't want to feel tense or cramped. I'm looking for the same comfortable feeling I look for right before falling asleep in bed: a relaxed feeling in all my body muscles. At this point I'll try to adjust whatever needs to, to reach that relaxed feeling: slightly bend the elbows, rotate a bit my torso, whatever allows me to reach that feeling. I mean, at the end of this process, I'm there, gun mounted, and I'm not aware of any sensation from my muscles: I don't "feel" any of them rigid, or aching, or telling me "I'm here, do you feel me?". BTW; when I have reached this "state", I know I'm in my best shooting stance. At this point I should have discovered what my Natural Point of Aim (NPA) is, and where it's oriented. I can now open my eyes: what is the relationship between front and rear sight? Before relieving the underside of the triggerguard, the front sight was standing right in the middle of the notch, but was not levelled with it: it was halfway over it. At first I thought "I need to learn to bend my wrists forward a bit more, to have the front sight correctly sit in the notch". I have experimented with it for some time, but didn't really like the tension this was introducing in my grip. I felt unnaturally rigid. Besides, whenever I was not consciously paying attention to this, my wrists were always returning back to the more natural position. This also affected my ability to time my gun, and the overall way the front sight was lifting and going back in the notch upon the gun recoling after the shot. Then, while I was thinking on several different ways of "rotating" the gun in my hands to have the sights perfectly aligned without changing my relaxed stance and grip, I happened to see some pics of relieved triggerguards: I immediately realized that this mod could have helped me achieving what I was looking for. A 20mins trial-and-error work with a dremel on the grip of my lightsaber, and voilà, I had at the same time the sights correctly aligned and the most comfortable grip I could have for my gun. Hope this clears the whole thing for you, it worked for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 The whole idea of the cut under the trigger guard is, IMHO, a way to slightly correct the vertical pointability of your gun, to suit it to your way of gripping it, allowing it to point correctly with the most natural grip you can have. As an aside, this may also be achieved by an arched or wedged mainspring housing. All single stack 1911s seem to point low for me so I install wedged MS housings and get the same result without altering the grip or frame. Just another option to alter NPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18625 There is a picture of my gun with a Advanced Performance grip. Very happy with the grip, as well as the service. usually, Jim will have your grip done and back to you within a week. He also has some cool paint schemes if you so choose. www.advancedperformanceshooting.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomppa Posted December 25, 2004 Share Posted December 25, 2004 Is there a danger that STI fram will break if you remove materia under the trigger guard? I've seen some pics that frame has broke just front of the mag release button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomppa Posted December 25, 2004 Share Posted December 25, 2004 And saying fram I mean grip ofcourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Tomppa, I have done the cut under the triggerguard of my SVI two years ago, and it's still fine. You have to be careful to remove material from under the triggerguard without cutting into the grip itself. I mean you can go upwards while removing material, but not inwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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