cbmax Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hi, There is a very good chance I am moving to Illinois, so I am starting to re-evaluate my three gun equipment. I currently use a home made Remington 870 pump. I am thinking about taking the plunge into a magazine fed shotgun. So of the somewhat readily available manufacturers, which woukd you choose and why. I realize I will need to go aftermarket to most likely get the shotgun match ready. The choices are Saiga 12, MKA 1919 or the Molot Vepr 12. So given aftermarket gunsmiths and available accessories, which would you choose and why? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I have no experience with the Saiga and the Vepr shotguns, but I do have a MKA 1919 that I really enjoy. One nice thing about the 1919 is almost all of the competition parts are bolt on and you do not need a gunsmith to install them. The main exception to this is the steel feed ramp to replace the polymer one. Better yet, get one of the new aluminum lowers from Firebird and that problem is solved. Now that mine is well broken in and I've learned how to tune the magazines, mine runs 100% with Remington Gun Club (1200 fps) shells. In time, I hope to get to 100% reliability with the softer shooting Rem G.C. 1145 fps shells. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) The 1919 is similar to your AR (I assume you are using an AR) My choice was the Saiga 12 I suggest you go over to the Saiga 12 board and checkout the Vepr along with the 1919 areas. Speaking for myself I'm not a one size fits all kind of guy. Currently there are a ton of aftermarket parts for the Saiga, Also with a Saiga you can do the work yourself and if you have a question the friendly folks at forum-saiga-12.com will be happy to answer it for you. Edited January 28, 2014 by Topmaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlillyskygod Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I have a Saiga and an Mka . I like both bottom line I have 1000.00 less in my Mka to get it 3 gun ready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 My vote goes to the MKA 1919, but we make about every part needed for setting up your MKA to your preference . So I MAY be a little biased Actually I thought I wanted a Saiga until I compared them, for me the MKA was the easy winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Having owned both, here is my impression: The Saiga 12 platform is slightly better shooting (softer, flatter, light in the hand), and if you keep the original rock-n-lock mag catch you can run economical, compact and reliable 20-round drum mags. However, getting one fully 3-Gun ready is expensive and requires the services of a professional gunsmith. My biggest concern, and the reason I ultimately got rid of mine, is that spare parts are made from unobtanium, and the Saiga is not built for longevity... I have a friend who wore a couple of them out at relatively low round counts (a few thousand rounds only IIRC). The MKA1919 platform is the wiser choice. It kicks a little more, and it also requires work to be 3-Gun ready, but you can do most/all the work yourself to keep the cost reasonable. It is a less mature platform, so finding the right ammo and mag combination will be a learning experience. The platform seems to be holding up pretty well to high round counts, and with several aftermarket parts providers supporting the platform - notably Firebird, which makes almost every part and is working towards a complete gun - you should be able to keep it running. I still have my MKA1919. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caz41 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Biggest question, what is your budget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeAZ Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) My turn,... I've owned/shot all three. If you want too spend the $$$$ or aren't willing to do your own work?.. No choice, the Firebird Akdal or the R&R Saiga 12.. The regular store bought Saiga 12's needs a helping hand with some polishing of the bolt, trigger, hammer, maybe gas port work and some aftermarket additions for 922 compliance. The Vepr 12, I recently purchased (I made 922 compliant) so far, is a step up from the Saiga's. Lot's of inspector stamps, gas ports all there, bolt allows mag to be inserted fully loaded on the closed bolt and a last round bolt open feature (which seems to be a plus at this point).. I paid extra for a folding stock option AND thinking back I wished I would have purchased the $200 cheaper wood stock model, then I could have put any style AK/AR stock on it. (Can't be done with the Factory folder.. your stuck with this stock at this point in time). Both the Sagia and the Vepr like ammo that is around 1300 fps. You can replace the front spring on the recoil rod with a Colt style spring for tuning either shotgun. The after market 10/12 round SGM mags work and aren't too expensive. I tried the Arridondo mag coupler for 24 rds. total but that's a lot of weight for me (small/Super Senior). I never bothered with a drum... some work... some don't. THAT said, SGM will have a 25 round drum priced under $100 coming out sometime soon for the Vepr. (I've pre-ordered). You know that the mag gun puts you in "open" class whether you use 5/10/12 rounder's. or drums?. You may as well have a dot. IF you get a dot for your mag gun, I'd recommend a micro dot (Burris fast Fire 3 or similar, I like the Burris Fast Fire 3 with the 8 min dot, not the FF2, which has the battery located on the bottom) that sits as low as possible. Be warned the AR/ picatinny rail regular C-Mores were too high for me because of the cheek weld. pm me if you wish, there is more.... Mike Edited January 28, 2014 by mike NM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbmax Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hi, Thank you for all of the responses. I can do simple work on my own, but I would prefer to have the shotgun worked up by a professional. Thus far I am leaning toward the Adkal due to it's superior construction and lower cost to become three gun ready. I would probably stay away from a drum magazine due to weight. It looks like price of admission is in the range of $2,000 for something set up nicely and not including an optic. In a traditional magazine (not a drum), what is the most capacity I could get for an Adkal shotgun and who would be the supplier? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Just for informational purposes the MKA's haven't been Akdal's since around Dec. 2012. if you get an XN model it will be a Eksen MKA 1919 A full competition ready gun, minus the sight, is $oops forgot not supposed to put a price outside the vendor forum check link in sig line. After a break in, it will run 1145 fps ammo WITH or without a mid barrel comp. We have a 23 rnd mag that runs excellent. Edited January 28, 2014 by toothandnail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdhunterman Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I picked up the Tooth and Nail 3 gun package. It does require a break in period but after that, things have smoothed out and reliability has been great. I can now run 1145 fps 1 1/8 oz. without issues. It comes with two coupled 10 round mags and two factory 5 round mags. This is plenty to get you through most 3 gun stages. I don't have much experience with the other platforms so not much for comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Though not cheap, MKA 1919 magazines run in 5rd - factory 10rd factory and Salem 6 extension on a 5 rd MKA mag 15rd - Firebird Precision slips a 12rd SCP Saiga mag onto a 5 rd MKA mag 18rd - Roulette Tactical - aluminum extension on a 5rd mag and now 23rd - Tooth & Nail - I believe its two SGP Saiga mags clipped to a 5 rd mag Start with a couple 10 rd mags and move up from there. At some point, it gets just too dang heavy. I run a plain old ordinary C-More red dot with 8 MOA dot. Also tried an 8 MOA Burris FastFire 3 and it rode a little too low for me. Bill Edited January 29, 2014 by Flatland Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganbillJ Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Though not cheap, MKA 1919 magazines run in 5rd - factory 10rd factory and Salem 6 extension on a 5 rd MKA mag 15rd - Firebird Precision slips a 12rd SCP Saiga mag onto a 5 rd MKA mag 18rd - Roulette Tactical - aluminum extension on a 5rd mag and now 23rd - Tooth & Nail - I believe its two factory 10 rd mags coupled together. Start with a couple 10 rd mags and move up from there. At some point, it gets just too dang heavy. I run a plain old ordinary C-More red dot with 8 MOA dot. Also tried an 8 MOA Burris FastFire 3 and it rode a little too low for me. Bill Fixed it for you Bill. Good info though. I run a Burris AR-F3 sight on mine. Comes with a riser designed for flat top AR-15's. Puts the dot at the perfect height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctay Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Just for variety, at SHOT a company called Rhino Arms introduced a "real" ar-10 platform shotgun. The lower is a stock ar-10 and the upper is the same size as a 308 upper but built with a rotating bolt 12 gauge BGC. Adjustable gas block so in theory you can shoot any type of ammo. They had steel 10 round mags at the table and the guy told me it would ship with 1 possibly 2 mags. Retail is going to be $2,850. Here are some pictures from the interwebs: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/01/foghorn/new-from-rhino-arms-semi-auto-ar-10-based-shotgun/ Who knows if it will really happen - I've heard tales of a ar-10 based shotgun around the campfire for years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I prefer the R&R Saigas I own 2 now and both run well they kick a lot less than the Firebird AKDALS I have shot. Both are solid choices but if you want the best performance and don't care so much about money get the R&R.Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actionshooter Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I was going to post about this one. I played with it at SHOT and I think this is going to be a game changer in the mag fed shotgun arena. It felt REALLY good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 To each his/her own as for me I'm loyal to my home converted DIY Saiga. That gun has served me well over the years and I have the pride of knowing that I did the work myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramairthree Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Do any of you have any experience with the Natmil BR99? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganbillJ Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 For BR-99 see below. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=183600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67camaro Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 To each his/her own as for me I'm loyal to my home converted DIY Saiga. That gun has served me well over the years and I have the pride of knowing that I did the work myself. +1 I have done all the work on my Saiga. I really don't have much for tools other than a cordless drill, a dremel, ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 To each his/her own as for me I'm loyal to my home converted DIY Saiga. That gun has served me well over the years and I have the pride of knowing that I did the work myself. +1 I have done all the work on my Saiga. I really don't have much for tools other than a cordless drill, a dremel, ect. Very nice. You do the hydrographics yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67camaro Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Yep wasn't hard at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramairthree Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Thank you. Have a son turning 16. Has his heart set on a mag fed. He wanted a Saiga, then when he heard the VEPR is getting drums wanted one of those. Than he saw a 1919 and was showing me links to those and the BR99. Was trying to see if there are drums for the 1919 and BR99, (well, 1919 after your info, thank you.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Here are mine and I love them. R&R all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67camaro Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Those are awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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