Chills1994 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I know a guy...err... knew a guy who had a trick for sandbagging the classifiers. He would put a dummy round in his magazine, maybe like the 5th round down. So he would be cruising through the classifier and his gun would go click, so he would play dumb, look at his gun like "WTF?" and the tap, rack, bang, and keep shooting the rest of the classifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) So I'm not sure how getting a 8x11 piece of wood for winning your class is recouping some of the expenses for shooting a major ... I don't have a trophy room either and displaying those types of things has little interest to me. I know what I've accomplished and making sure others know has never been important to me .... I have 2 world records in offshore fishing plus 5 top ten finishes in international fishing tournaments plus I wrote feature stories for a national magazine for 7 yrs but if you were to come in my house you would be hard pressed to know that I even fish ... Everyone is different and I'm not trying to put those down for which that stuff is important, it's just not me. I only care about winning when involved in a competition, nothing else really has that much appeal to me. So, having accomplished my goal of getting everyone riled up since I was bored and couldn't shoot, I'll now stop adding fuel to the fire since none of this really matters as no one is going to change their opinion any time soon ... And I'm back able to shoot .... Edited January 28, 2014 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 So I'm not sure how getting a 8x11 piece of wood for winning your class is recouping some of the expenses for shooting a major ... I don't have a trophy room either and displaying those types of things has little interest to me. I know what I've accomplished and making sure others know has never been important to me .... I have 2 world records in offshore fishing plus 5 top ten finishes in international fishing tournaments plus I wrote feature stories for a national magazine for 7 yrs but if you were to come in my house you would be hard pressed to know that I even fish ... Everyone is different and I'm not trying to put those down for which that stuff is important, it's just not me. I only care about winning when involved in a competition, nothing else really has that much appeal to me. So, having accomplished my goal of getting everyone riled up since I was bored and couldn't shoot, I'll now stop adding fuel to the fire since none of this really matters as no one is going to change their opinion any time soon ... And I'm back able to shoot .... nimitz will tou take me fishing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabbermurph Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 So I'm not sure how getting a 8x11 piece of wood for winning your class is recouping some of the expenses for shooting a major ... I was speaking on the prize winnings. The plaques for class wins are cool, but the one I want is glass!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I wouldn't mind seeing a 5 year review for class readjustment. If your classed an A in limited but 75% of your class scores are C they should be downgraded to C. But that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Never mind Edited January 28, 2014 by a matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 that's an interesting idea! Maybe a little more often then every 5 yrs though since that's a long time ... Juan, unfortunately I sold my yacht a couple of years ago & closed my sport fishing charter business ... however, if you have a boat I'd be happy to play "rent-a-charter-captain' for the day ... I'll PM you my company logo ... last time I posted it on a forum I was told it was inappropriate and given a black mark ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Well I'll try to make it out West before I move up to A to kick your butt in B class, fair and square I'd love to meet you and watch you shoot and learn something from you, but you'll have to kick my butt in the overall. I don't compete in a 'class' or care about the 'class' results. I hope to make A's this year, but I'll still be shooting for overall standings and percentage of the winners at major matches. Edited January 28, 2014 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Amen ... Nothing matters but the overall ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Amen ... Nothing matters but the overall improvement If you just improve your shooting, results will happen one way or another. Edited January 28, 2014 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35WLN Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think plaques are great for class winners. But I hate to watch lower classes walk the prize tables before me when overall I beat them. It is ridiculous. The prize table should be order of finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Maybe we could morph tis thread into a prize table discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Maybe we could morph tis thread into a prize table discussion. cuz we've never had one of those before, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabbermurph Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Well I'll try to make it out West before I move up to A to kick your butt in B class, fair and square I'd love to meet you and watch you shoot and learn something from you, but you'll have to kick my butt in the overall. I don't compete in a 'class' or care about the 'class' results. I hope to make A's this year, but I'll still be shooting for overall standings and percentage of the winners at major matches. I was speaking in jest....I have read enough of this post to know where you stand (and I'm right there with you). And quite frankly, until you make it to the Super Squad, you are only competing against yourself. This, at least, is how I look at it. I know if I am at the top of my class in two or more majors, then it wasn't a fluke, my practice is paying off, and I've improved enough to step onto the next rung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 What a great idea! So having never been to an 'order of finish" prize table match how exactly does it work? You seem to imply that as an A class shooter who finishes 18th overall but say 5th in class, you would walk the table after someone who finished 35th but finished as 1st C? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 If true, now I finally get the sandbagging thing .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabbermurph Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 If true, now I finally get the sandbagging thing .... which is what my idea would eliminate and permanently place those who try to game the system in a shooting career that would yield only three prize table visits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 However the prizes are going to be distributed should be listed in writing on the match entry form. " You's pay your money and you's take your chances." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 What a great idea! So having never been to an 'order of finish" prize table match how exactly does it work? You seem to imply that as an A class shooter who finishes 18th overall but say 5th in class, you would walk the table after someone who finished 35th but finished as 1st C? That's what I have seen. 1st D goes before 2nd A, etc... This is why class wins are a big deal to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) That is why sandbagging is a big deal, and I'd rather see random draw for the prize table. I've been to a number of matches where prizes went by random draw, and no one but the egregious sandbaggers complained. I personally doubt very much that the 5th or 7th place A spent any less time or effort on improving his shooting than the first C or D. However, ..... I don't really care. I know from long years of experience racing on 2 wheels that as soon as I start factoring in prizes into my racing and training strategy, the fun level decreases. I have a job, so I can just buy whatever shooting goodies I need, and choose what matches to attend based on the shooting challenge and enjoyment rather than my chances of sandbagging (or lucking out in the random draw) and getting something from the prize table. That strategy may not work for others, so I encourage others to do whatever it takes to pump them up to enjoy a day of shooting with friends. Edited January 29, 2014 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Maybe we could morph tis thread into a prize table discussion. For me, personally, this has absolutely Nothing to do with prize table. Just honest personal integrity. I really feel Very Badly shooting week after week, at the local level, with people who are B Open shooters, like me, but are Obviously Much Better than B shooters - beating A's and even some Masters, week after week, month after month, year after year. Four pages ago, at the start of this posting, someone asked how do you know if you're getting better? I compare my scores to other B shooters - if I'm shooting 70% of other B shooters consistently, except on classifiers, then I don't know what I 'm comparing myself to. There are usually a cluster of us B shooters within a few points of ourselves. But one or two B shooters, at each of the 16 ranges I shoot at, are Way Above the rest of us B shooters - for years and years. Every classification system has problems. But I know a bunch of B shooters, who have been B shooters for Years, despite shooting many Regional and even National matches, and continue to shoot way above the B level, except in classifiers. Shooting against them totally frustrates my ability to determine how I stack up against B shooters, which is how this discussion all started out. I don't give a Rat's .ss about the prize table. Edited January 29, 2014 by Hi-Power Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Four pages ago, at the start of this posting, someone askedhow do you know if you're getting better? I compare my scores to other B shooters - Just my opinion, but I think you are doing it wrong. Comparing yourself to other shooters of a particular 'class' will always be a moving target, depending on who shows up and whether they are practicing and getting better. I think you would get a much more objective measure of your own improvement if you measured yourself by your classification percentages, and by your percentage of the overall winner. In my experience, that tends to me much more consistent, and as I train and practice and learn, I can see those percentages gradually going up. OTOH, if I just look at the guys around me, they are also practicing and learning, sometimes have a great day (or a bad day). Last week I was at the back of the pack of guys I mostly shoot with, but they all just really shot well. I actually had my highest percentage ever of the overall match winner, and I felt like I was shooting great. If all I did was look at the other guys in my 'class', I would probably be all pessimistic and sad and whiny and demotivated. It really doesn't matter to me how I stack up against other people who haven't practiced enough to get out of B class. It matter to me that I am better than I was last month, and that next month I will be better than I am this month. Of course, this is from the perspective of someone who is fairly new to shooting (a couple of years), so I still feel like i have a lot to learn and vast room to improve. It may be different for someone who has been shooting and practicing for years (or even decades), and may be closer to the upper end of their potential. Still, I feel like it is a bit of a defeatist attitude to compare oneself to others. I enjoy shooting more (and all other sports as well) when I compare myself to me, and to what I'm capable of. I know when I shot the best I could, and I know when I made mistakes due to lack of focus or preparation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Moto, I agree with you. The Best way to gauge your progress (which I do) is to see overall % vs Major Matches. But, I don't attend that many - so week after week, I see how I'm doing vs. other B Open shooters (4 - 7 of them each week. That's all I have to compare myself to each week. I have no idea how Eric shot my weekly , local match. Only the few B Open shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Moto, I agree with you. The Best way to gauge your progress (which I do) is to see overall % vs Major Matches. But, I don't attend that many - so week after week, I see how I'm doing vs. other B Open shooters (4 - 7 of them each week. That's all I have to compare myself to each week. I have no idea how Eric shot my weekly , local match. Only the few B Open shooters. Fair enough. I do watch the other guys near me at my local matches (in all divisions and classes, not just in the one I shoot), but I find that here the overall winner of the match is generally a pretty consistent performance. there are 3 or 4 different guys (3 open shooters and one limited shooter) that are typically vying for that top spot, and it seems like the most consistent one is the one that wins. The other guys I measure myself in are in limited, open, production and even single-stack, and they are unclassified, C, B and A, but they are folks that are typically just a little bit better than me overall, so I like to look at all their scores. It makes more sense to me to compare myself to people that historically perform close to my level rather than people who shoot a similar gun and happen to have the same letter classification. Maybe I'm just excessively optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 So are you saying the prize table order would be: 1st overall 1st M 1st A 1st B Etc 2nd M 2nd A Etc When do they stop with class ranking an go to order of finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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