Dillon needs a new 750 model

[Overscore]

When I decided to get into reloading, which isn't really all that long ago, one of the obvious decisions to make was which press. A variety of factors lead me to a choice between the 650 and Hornady Lock n Load. My primary shooting friend has the Hornady, so that was my deciding factor to go with Dillon, the logic being that we both get to become familiar with both while paying only the price for one.

What I've come to suspect is that Hornady deliberately designed their LnL press in response to the pros and cons of the 650, which is a wise move on their part if so. Here are my observations that make me think this.

• People complain about the 650 spewing spent primers all over the place (which is absolutely ridiculous, quite frankly), so they went with the "community" fix for their design.
• Dillon has that index-no-matter-what design for their primers, where as Hornady figured a way to only feed the next primer if something took the current one away. This is a far better experience.
• Those little locator buttons are not the world's favorite design, so Hornady went with the springs.
• The removable tool head concept on the Dillon is nice, but it's also pricey, and the solution of those tool head stands seems like a half-implemented afterthought. Hornady went with their lock and load design to achieve a similar level of flexibility with much less cost and with a more manageable set of implements to store.
• The square tubing for the case feeder is a superior design to the round tube with yet another set screw.
• The half-step indexing allows for smoother operation, meaning not having powder fly out all over the place (which is also absolutely ridiculous).
• Also, the no-BS warranty is pretty much across all brands now.

I'm sure that if I used the LnL for a year, I'd discover its comparable list of quirks, because everything is going to have it. But, from what I currently know, the LnL seems to be like a 650 with the design flaws fixed. This is why I'd like to see Dillon respond with a new design and let them have the better mid-price progressive press that fixes the flaws in the Hornady for a while.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Overscore

[Brassaholic13]

After having owned a LNL with case feeder, and a Dillon 650 with case feeder, I will vehemently disagree with multiple points on your post.

1. The LNL primer system sucks. If you get a spec of debris in the LNL primer feeding system it will not work, and will often break the top plastic piece that holds the guide wire. I have had the LNL system not drop a primer into the shuttle more than once.

2. The LNL "spring" that retains the shells in the shell plate works, so long as it's not mashed. If a shell fails to eject properly, which happens, it mashes the spring. That spring then causes issues when the case feeder slide tries to insert a shell into the shell plate.

3. 10 lock n load bushings are $42.00. So you have $21.00 in 5 bushings, or $28 in a tool head. With the expense of the "hobby," $7.00 difference is a pittance. I've never had a Tool Head come loose. I've had the LNL bushings vibrate loose.

4. I don't know if you've ever put together a Dillon Case Feeder vs the Hornady... But, the Hornady square tubing is excessively easy to collapse. The Dillon round tubing is fully supported and can not collapse, even if over tightened. If square tubing was superior, race cars would be using it for roll cages.

5. Half step indexing... Twice as much can go wrong.

About the only thing I liked about the LNL over the Dillon was the primer ejection system. Hook a hose onto it and route into a bucket.

[gimpy]

I had an LnL and am much happier with the Dillon. The priming system on the LnL wasn't that great, the case feed system left a lot to be desired, the case retention spring was a nuisance, the LnL bushings tended to work loose, the indexing always seemed to need adjustment, and they only warrant the press to the original purchaser.

[Overscore]

These are good things to hear. I don't want to feel any sense of buyer's remorse here, so hearing about Hornady's own little annoyances somehow makes me feel better.

[jmorris]

The 650 is the only Dillon with the rotary style feeder all of the others are reciprocating like the LNL. Having owned two LNL's and all of the Dillons, I think the 650 has the most trouble free system of them all.

[Mavrick379]

Maybe a little off topic but I have a 550b and the only thing I wish it had (not a huge deal) is a 5th or even 6th station, one for a powder check and one for a separate expander, (so far not a huge fan of powder funnel/expander dies) . I don't want a case or bullet feed and like the manual index.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Mavrick379

[Overscore]

I also don't particularly care for the combination of powder and belling. I decap and resize all my brass as a separate process, so that does mean that I could separate belling and powder, but I suppose it hasn't gotten my goat enough yet for me to actually make this change.

[jmorris]

I am thinking they need a 2050. Something like my auto driven PLC controlled 1050 but with enough stations/space to trim as part of the loading process and throw in an induction annealer and a case lube station while your at it.

Edited January 13, 2014 by jmorris

[98sr20ve]

These are good things to hear. I don't want to feel any sense of buyer's remorse here, so hearing about Hornady's own little annoyances somehow makes me feel better.

LnL (even if it works perfectly) is no 650 IMHO.

It's Noisy,

It's harder to prime,

It has those silly bushings that take up way to much space

Casefeeder is harder to adjust and keep running right.

PTX setup no where near as good as Dillons.

The Spring is nice BUT it also is a point the case can tip easily (depending on caliber and even gun shot out of (glock is the worst))when using the casefeeder.

I did like the micrometer on the powder measure. That was sweet. I just got the Uniquetek version (again) for the Dillon. But the Hornady is half the cost and very good.

Besides that one thing there is nothing on the LnL I would prefer over my 650. And that is after owning it for months.

[Chills1994]

Maybe a little off topic but I have a 550b and the only thing I wish it had (not a huge deal) is a 5th or even 6th station, one for a powder check and one for a separate expander, (so far not a huge fan of powder funnel/expander dies) . I don't want a case or bullet feed and like the manual index.

I had a 550. Now, I have a 650. My station #3 spot in the toolhead is open or empty. I do NOT use a powder cop die. My logic being I have to look at the case anyway to set the bullet on top of it. If I can see that there is no powder in the case or too much, then don't set a bullet on top of it.

[Chills1994]

How are people spilling primers all over the place with their 650's???

When I load, I do one hundred rounds at a time and run the press til it runs out of primers.

When the primer tube is filled up again, I put a bigger L shaped allen wrench in the bottom of the casefeeder "gate". Then I cycle the handle 7 or 8 times, until I see the first primer start to come around inside the primer disc/wheel/carousel. Then I remove the allen wrench, so the cases can start dropping again. VOILA! no UNused primers dropping out of the carousel and sliding down the "ski jump".

[98sr20ve]

You take a little piece of plastic tube. Slide it over he ski jump. None will fall out.

No machine is perfect. The 650 has a learning curve and some quirks that you can easily improve. None of the "quirks" are problematic. Unlike on the LnL that was just a freaking nightmare for me.

[Overscore]

How are people spilling primers all over the place with their 650's???

When I load, I do one hundred rounds at a time and run the press til it runs out of primers.

When the primer tube is filled up again, I put a bigger L shaped allen wrench in the bottom of the casefeeder "gate". Then I cycle the handle 7 or 8 times, until I see the first primer start to come around inside the primer disc/wheel/carousel. Then I remove the allen wrench, so the cases can start dropping again. VOILA! no UNused primers dropping out of the carousel and sliding down the "ski jump".

I meant the spent primers. They fly all over the place with the factory design. I built a lip around my spent primer cup with electrical tape, and it's fine, but it makes me wonder why Dillon doesn't just update that little bin to be a bit taller.

The unused primer ski jump is also a pretty faulty design, IMO, but it's rare that I have occasion for a primer to go unused, so I guess it doesn't get my goat as much.

That is an interesting thing, deliberately running out of primers. I load 100 primers into the machine and then fill up 10 primer tubes so that I can load 1100 rounds without having to play yard-chicken with the primers for an entire loading session.

[Flexmoney]

... it makes me wonder why Dillon doesn't just update that little bin to be a bit taller.

I don't know, but I have to wonder... What would it cost Dillon to make a one or more of these little updates?

Given their policy...the fact that we can call in and get a part shipped right out to us...wouldn't they be effectively retro-fitting every press that has ever been sold?

It's a no-win for them. I'd rather they not do it. Because I don't want to give up the good that we get from them as is.

Plus, I don't care if my spent primers get loose. I sweep them up every year or two. I am also OK with added a thrust bearing and clipping a spring to smooth the press (shell plate) out a bit.

As the opening poster mentioned, I think the only way they could make these updates would be to come out with an entirely new model. There are likely some cons to doing that as well.

[benos]

I've lost track of how many times I've heard a potential Dillon press owner (currently owns an LnL) say, "It's a pretty good press, but I'm sick of always have to fiddle with the LnL's priming system."

[Brassaholic13]

How are people spilling primers all over the place with their 650's???

When I load, I do one hundred rounds at a time and run the press til it runs out of primers.

When the primer tube is filled up again, I put a bigger L shaped allen wrench in the bottom of the casefeeder "gate". Then I cycle the handle 7 or 8 times, until I see the first primer start to come around inside the primer disc/wheel/carousel. Then I remove the allen wrench, so the cases can start dropping again. VOILA! no UNused primers dropping out of the carousel and sliding down the "ski jump".

I meant the spent primers. They fly all over the place with the factory design. I built a lip around my spent primer cup with electrical tape, and it's fine, but it makes me wonder why Dillon doesn't just update that little bin to be a bit taller.

The unused primer ski jump is also a pretty faulty design, IMO, but it's rare that I have occasion for a primer to go unused, so I guess it doesn't get my goat as much.

That is an interesting thing, deliberately running out of primers. I load 100 primers into the machine and then fill up 10 primer tubes so that I can load 1100 rounds without having to play yard-chicken with the primers for an entire loading session.

You can ELIMINATE that spent primer bin altogether in about 3 minutes.

Take a .44 SPL or MAG shell, drill out the primer hole to the ID of the shell (or close to it), then loosen the bracket that holds the bin. Slip the .44 shell under the bracket, and tighten it back up. Apply some 3/8" clear vinyl hose and a bucket underneath and you're done. Put your spent primer bin on the shelf.

[seanc]

My Only real beef with the 650 is getting consistent primer depth, it took me awhile to figure out how to set the shell plate and shim the anvil to get it exactly where I wanted it, but its good now.

I've loaded enough on mine that there are parts in my 650 that legitametly are starting to feel sloppy and I'm considering sending it in for an overhaul, but it still cranks out perfectly good ammo...

[Chills1994]

My 650 is good about catching spent primers.

My 550 on the othee hand....UGGhh. That was before I saw the little magnet trick to keep the chute closed.

[TH3180]

My 650 is good about catching spent primers.

My 550 on the othee hand....UGGhh. That was before I saw the little magnet trick to keep the chute closed.

What magnet trick?

[Overscore]

You can ELIMINATE that spent primer bin altogether in about 3 minutes.

Take a .44 SPL or MAG shell, drill out the primer hole to the ID of the shell (or close to it), then loosen the bracket that holds the bin. Slip the .44 shell under the bracket, and tighten it back up. Apply some 3/8" clear vinyl hose and a bucket underneath and you're done. Put your spent primer bin on the shelf.

Yes, at some point I'll probably wind up doing this, but the issue remains that the requirement for such a solution is kinda ridiculous. It's not as though Dillon is unaware of this issue.

[Waynebob126]

I made a primer cup extension for my 550. Had a small piece of tin laying around the shed. Bent and shaped it so it would fit in the cup. I would post pics but I'm still a newb.....

Edited January 14, 2014 by Waynebob126

[Chills1994]

My 650 is good about catching spent primers.

My 550 on the othee hand....UGGhh. That was before I saw the little magnet trick to keep the chute closed.

What magnet trick?

Let's see if I can get the pic to post.

See the circular magnet?

It adds just enough weight to keep the chute open or down to catch the dead primer.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Chills1994

[Chills1994]

Overscore wrote:

...That is an interesting thing, deliberately running out of primers. I load 100 primers into the machine and then fill up 10 primer tubes so that I can load 1100 rounds without having to play yard-chicken with the primers for an entire loading session.

Yeah I just do a hundred at a time, filling just one tube using the Dillon flip tray. When the primets run out on the press, I grab the loaded round bin, and some of those plastic hinge lid ammo boxes, and head to the living room. I'll put the ammo boxes on the coffee table. Then I fill up the ammo boxes, checking for upside down primers or no primers. Then I run my finger tip across the headstamps checking for high primers. I will case gauge a few of them. If everything looks good, them I use a marker to stripe the headstamps:

And when I run out of the plastic ammo boxes, then I dump them into GI surplus ammo cans:

I'd rather QC/QA one hundred rounds at a time instead of being the guy who posts "AHHH! MAN! I gotta pull the bullets on 2,600 rounds now"

[jester121]

It must be hit-or-miss on people having problems with the LNL. I know some people have had nightmares they could never get resolved, and others (like me) who couldn't be happier. On the rare occasion I miss a primer pickup I can feel the lack of resistance on the press , and it's a simple matter to flick the shuttle and feed another one, and re-press to seat it.

I like the spring retainer, still on my original one after 2 years even though I did buy spares, and never had an issue. I had to dink around with the timing a bit when I first set up for .45 but once I understood how it works that was no big deal. And I really like the roominess of the shell plate on the Hornady compared with the cramped Dillon -- it's a big wide area to work in.

I've shied away from the case and bullet feeders, heard too many hassles and I'm not so pressed for time that I can't bang out 500 rounds in a couple hours. I load at a pretty leisurely pace but I don't feel like the press is holding me back.

[mcracco]

I am thinking they need a 2050. Something like my auto driven PLC controlled 1050 but with enough stations/space to trim as part of the loading process and throw in an induction annealer and a case lube station while your at it.

Pretty much a Dillon fan's wet dream.