Does 3 gun need a governing body?

[Glock3422]

3 gun didn't need 3gn to grow and become popular. 3gn needed 3 gun as a reason to exist.

It is not a symbiotic relationship.

As a gate keeper, 3gn requires competitors to buy into the whole deal. Drink the kool aid, have seconds. Pay dues.

In the end, 3gn is about prize tables and owning 3 gun. Neither of those things matter to 80% of the people who shoot 3 gun. 3gn is all about controlling the sponsors for 3 gun matches and driving the outlaw matches out of existence. That would be a very bad thing. The outlaw organizers have recognized it from the outset.

When the TV shows dies, as they all do, the reason for 3gn dies with it.

Whatever sponsorship damage 3gn will have done in the meanwhile will hurt outlaw matches for a long time.

Well, maybe then we can get back to just having fun.

[outerlimits]

3 gun didn't need 3gn to grow and become popular. 3gn needed 3 gun as a reason to exist.

It is not a symbiotic relationship.

As a gate keeper, 3gn requires competitors to buy into the whole deal. Drink the kool aid, have seconds. Pay dues.

In the end, 3gn is about prize tables and owning 3 gun. Neither of those things matter to 80% of the people who shoot 3 gun. 3gn is all about controlling the sponsors for 3 gun matches and driving the outlaw matches out of existence. That would be a very bad thing. The outlaw organizers have recognized it from the outset.

When the TV shows dies, as they all do, the reason for 3gn dies with it.

Whatever sponsorship damage 3gn will have done in the meanwhile will hurt outlaw matches for a long time.

Well, maybe then we can get back to just having fun.

Great post.

[Jesse Tischauser]

3 gun didn't need 3gn to grow and become popular. 3gn needed 3 gun as a reason to exist.

It is not a symbiotic relationship.

As a gate keeper, 3gn requires competitors to buy into the whole deal. Drink the kool aid, have seconds. Pay dues.

In the end, 3gn is about prize tables and owning 3 gun. Neither of those things matter to 80% of the people who shoot 3 gun. 3gn is all about controlling the sponsors for 3 gun matches and driving the outlaw matches out of existence. That would be a very bad thing. The outlaw organizers have recognized it from the outset.

When the TV shows dies, as they all do, the reason for 3gn dies with it.

Whatever sponsorship damage 3gn will have done in the meanwhile will hurt outlaw matches for a long time.

Well, maybe then we can get back to just having fun.

But USPSA, IDPA, SASS, ICORE, don't have a TV show and they still exist.

[Ranger6]

"Governing Body?

We don't got no Governing Body.

We don't need no stinking Governing Body, here!"

Treasure of the Sierra Madre 3 Gun . . .

Ranger6

_{"If it's on the internet, it's got to be true. They can't put anything on the internet if it isn't true." A. Lincoln}

[Jesse Tischauser]

Just saw this on a Facebook post and it made me think of all the organization and classification haters. New shooters benefit from both because of the goal setting/achievement associated with a classification.

[kurtm]

That is soooo coool!!! I really like the way the scores weren't up dated untill the last minute, that way it seems like a present!

[Glock3422]

3 gun didn't need 3gn to grow and become popular. 3gn needed 3 gun as a reason to exist.

It is not a symbiotic relationship.

As a gate keeper, 3gn requires competitors to buy into the whole deal. Drink the kool aid, have seconds. Pay dues.

In the end, 3gn is about prize tables and owning 3 gun. Neither of those things matter to 80% of the people who shoot 3 gun. 3gn is all about controlling the sponsors for 3 gun matches and driving the outlaw matches out of existence. That would be a very bad thing. The outlaw organizers have recognized it from the outset.

When the TV shows dies, as they all do, the reason for 3gn dies with it.

Whatever sponsorship damage 3gn will have done in the meanwhile will hurt outlaw matches for a long time.

Well, maybe then we can get back to just having fun.

But USPSA, IDPA, SASS, ICORE, don't have a TV show and they still exist.

None are based on a TV show.

As an "IDPA" shooter, former member and SO. don't take your customers for granted.

And Miculek is going to kick your ass. You can't take the pressure.

[Jesse Tischauser]

3 gun didn't need 3gn to grow and become popular. 3gn needed 3 gun as a reason to exist.

It is not a symbiotic relationship.

As a gate keeper, 3gn requires competitors to buy into the whole deal. Drink the kool aid, have seconds. Pay dues.

In the end, 3gn is about prize tables and owning 3 gun. Neither of those things matter to 80% of the people who shoot 3 gun. 3gn is all about controlling the sponsors for 3 gun matches and driving the outlaw matches out of existence. That would be a very bad thing. The outlaw organizers have recognized it from the outset.

When the TV shows dies, as they all do, the reason for 3gn dies with it.

Whatever sponsorship damage 3gn will have done in the meanwhile will hurt outlaw matches for a long time.

Well, maybe then we can get back to just having fun.

But USPSA, IDPA, SASS, ICORE, don't have a TV show and they still exist.

None are based on a TV show.

As an "IDPA" shooter, former member and SO. don't take your customers for granted.

And Miculek is going to kick your ass. You can't take the pressure.

Did I miss something? 3 Gun Nation Club Series, Regional Series, Semi Pro Series, Amateur Series aren't based on any TV shows either.

[ac4wordplay]

...

ANY match that needs more than 2 pages of rules , not for me. Been there, NOT gonna do that again.

Please send me a copy of a stand-alone rule-set that adequately covers everything required for a match, and is no longer than 2 pages.

[Glock3422]

Did I miss something? 3 Gun Nation Club Series, Regional Series, Semi Pro Series, Amateur Series aren't based on any TV shows either.

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. You are going to have to do a little work here.

[Romans 13 4]

What I think we need is someone to charge us extra fees to support a large staff that does not benefit us as the shooters, who could do there best to stifle creativity and fubar the matches that we all enjoy so much. That would be cool.

Exactly.... leave well enough alone.

[gose]

I think it's good as is.

We have outlaw matches, USPSA matches and 3GN matches, everyone can find something they like.

Nothing is going to get all, or even most, of the 3 gun matches to line up and adjust their rules so they're all identical. The whole idea that a "governing body" is magically going to get all matches to streamline their rules is flawed and will never happen. Maybe we'll see more USPSA and 3GN matches in the future, but the outlaw matches are going to live on with their own rules sets. There are simply too many people who dont like USPSA and 3GN, so there will always be an audience for outlaw matches.

Personally, I prefer the outlaw matches because of the different flavors and the extra character the various rules bring to matches. So what if I have to do some minor adjustments to my equipment, its not like the rules are that different.

Edited January 2, 2014 by gose

[Jesse Tischauser]

I think it's good as is.

We have outlaw matches, USPSA matches and 3GN matches, everyone can find something they like.

Nothing is going to get all, or even most, of the 3 gun matches to line up and adjust their rules so they're all identical. The whole idea that a "governing body" is magically going to get all matches to streamline their rules is flawed and will never happen. Maybe we'll see more USPSA and 3GN matches in the future, but the outlaw matches are going to live on with their own rules sets. There are simply too many people who dont like USPSA and 3GN, so there will always be an audience for outlaw matches.

Personally, I prefer the outlaw matches because of the different flavors and the extra character the various rules bring to matches. So what if I have to do some minor adjustments to my equipment, its not like the rules are that different.

We'll said. My thinking is that club matches will go more the route of a sanctioned body. I don't think there is enough benefit for the outlaw matches to align themselves. Unless the demand for their product drops why change?

[Glocktogo]

What I think we need is someone to charge us extra fees to support a large staff that does not benefit us as the shooters, who could do there best to stifle creativity and fubar the matches that we all enjoy so much. That would be cool.

LOL, just what I was thinking. The one that really gets the shaft is the local affiliated club. They get to pay for the privilege of being affiliated, so they can be told what they must, can and cannot do, by someone who's never set foot on their range. In the old days, there was at least the benefit of advertising. With the plethora of shooting forums (both local, state and national), if you run a good match, the word will get out and they will come.

There's nothing stopping a range or club from affiliating with USPSA or 3GN if that's what they want. But the way it stands now, the merits of a match still mean something. The worst parts of the best matches I've been to have been some silly rules requirement that didn't make sense on that day at that range.

[Sterling White]

What I think we need is someone to charge us extra fees to support a large staff that does not benefit us as the shooters, who could do there best to stifle creativity and fubar the matches that we all enjoy so much. That would be cool.

Style points given for cutting to the chase!

Edited January 3, 2014 by Sterling White

[SonOfSpartans]

What would be nice is a central place to find out about matches of any flavor, in any area and for a year at a time. Along with that a clear process for registering in each of the matches/formats. As a new comer it is very frustrating to find out you need to.........be a member of this from an unsecured site payment web portal in a compressed time window or you are sitting and watching for another year.

So no governing body but some way of having a central on line shop would be nice for promotion of the hobby/sport.

[Sterling White]

There has been discussion about doing just this with an online calendar of events at 3GunUSA.COM. It's my understanding that no membership would be required for access. The ability to register and self squad is really nice.

[SonOfSpartans]

There has been discussion about doing just this with an online calendar of events at 3GunUSA.COM. It's my understanding that no membership would be required for access. The ability to register and self squad is really nice.

That would be great. Make it a Google calendar I could add to my phone and it would be easy to plan out........

I may not be able to get to all I want, but knowing there was something in the area I would happily adjust my travel to go watch and help where I could.

[gose]

There has been discussion about doing just this with an online calendar of events at 3GunUSA.COM. It's my understanding that no membership would be required for access. The ability to register and self squad is really nice.

That would be great. Make it a Google calendar I could add to my phone and it would be easy to plan out........

I may not be able to get to all I want, but knowing there was something in the area I would happily adjust my travel to go watch and help where I could.

How about using something that already has all the features needed for calendar, registration, payment, squadding, scoring etc, something like Shoot n Score It (shootnscoreit.com). And its free...

Or we could re-invent the wheel, or wait another couple of years for Practiscore to add it.

Edited January 4, 2014 by gose

[Glock3422]

3 gun didn't need 3gn to grow and become popular. 3gn needed 3 gun as a reason to exist.

It is not a symbiotic relationship.

As a gate keeper, 3gn requires competitors to buy into the whole deal. Drink the kool aid, have seconds. Pay dues.

In the end, 3gn is about prize tables and owning 3 gun. Neither of those things matter to 80% of the people who shoot 3 gun. 3gn is all about controlling the sponsors for 3 gun matches and driving the outlaw matches out of existence. That would be a very bad thing. The outlaw organizers have recognized it from the outset.

When the TV shows dies, as they all do, the reason for 3gn dies with it.

Whatever sponsorship damage 3gn will have done in the meanwhile will hurt outlaw matches for a long time.

Well, maybe then we can get back to just having fun.

But USPSA, IDPA, SASS, ICORE, don't have a TV show and they still exist.

None are based on a TV show.

As an "IDPA" shooter, former member and SO. don't take your customers for granted.

And Miculek is going to kick your ass. You can't take the pressure.

Did I miss something? 3 Gun Nation Club Series, Regional Series, Semi Pro Series, Amateur Series aren't based on any TV shows either.

It seems you forgot what you wrote on November 29 -

"3GN had three people on a full time payroll in 2013. They now have something like 4-6 full time employees and 2-3 of them do nothing but make the magazine and TV show which pays for it all."

Doodie Project

[Jesse Tischauser]

3 gun didn't need 3gn to grow and become popular. 3gn needed 3 gun as a reason to exist.

It is not a symbiotic relationship.

As a gate keeper, 3gn requires competitors to buy into the whole deal. Drink the kool aid, have seconds. Pay dues.

In the end, 3gn is about prize tables and owning 3 gun. Neither of those things matter to 80% of the people who shoot 3 gun. 3gn is all about controlling the sponsors for 3 gun matches and driving the outlaw matches out of existence. That would be a very bad thing. The outlaw organizers have recognized it from the outset.

When the TV shows dies, as they all do, the reason for 3gn dies with it.

Whatever sponsorship damage 3gn will have done in the meanwhile will hurt outlaw matches for a long time.

Well, maybe then we can get back to just having fun.

But USPSA, IDPA, SASS, ICORE, don't have a TV show and they still exist.

None are based on a TV show.

As an "IDPA" shooter, former member and SO. don't take your customers for granted.

And Miculek is going to kick your ass. You can't take the pressure.

Did I miss something? 3 Gun Nation Club Series, Regional Series, Semi Pro Series, Amateur Series aren't based on any TV shows either.

It seems you forgot what you wrote on November 29 -

"3GN had three people on a full time payroll in 2013. They now have something like 4-6 full time employees and 2-3 of them do nothing but make the magazine and TV show which pays for it all."

Doodie Project

I should have said the advertising bundle pays for it all currently. Club TV, 3GN website, 3GN regional matches and the televised pro series draw sponsors because sponsors get a return on their investment that no other match or organization can give them currently. Hopefully once 3GN has a consistent shooter membership like the other organizations that most of us pay annual dues to it will be a self sufficient. But the show will go on until the sponsors stop sponsoring. It's not like Top Shot. The network isn't paying 3GN to put on the show. It won't be cancelled by The Sportsman's Network. The very generous manufacturers in this industry are paying for it. I for one am gonna stand beside them and support the companies that are trying to grow the sport.

[Stlhead]

So the network is not paying for the show? I find that incredibly hard to believe. If the producers of the show are not getting any compensation for providing content for the network, why would they continue to do so?

[Stlhead]

Also, the reason that the manufacturers are trying to grow the sport is so they can sell more product and make more profits. As long as they are getting a return on thier marketing investment they will continue to advertise and support matches and such. Do not fool yourself into thinking that any corporation is going to continue advertising if they feel those dollars could be better spent elsewhere. Stand where ever you like, but it is money that makes fun things happen, not warm feelings. If there was not a way to make a profit from 3GN thee would be no 3GN.

[Alaskapopo]

Also, the reason that the manufacturers are trying to grow the sport is so they can sell more product and make more profits. As long as they are getting a return on thier marketing investment they will continue to advertise and support matches and such. Do not fool yourself into thinking that any corporation is going to continue advertising if they feel those dollars could be better spent elsewhere. Stand where ever you like, but it is money that makes fun things happen, not warm feelings. If there was not a way to make a profit from 3GN thee would be no 3GN.

Exactly ain't nothing free. That is why manufactures are generous to 3 gun matches with gear. Its a way to advertize and it develops brand loyalty and I you can write it off as advertising. Its good for shooters and the manufactures.

Pat

[davehorn]

So the network is not paying for the show? I find that incredibly hard to believe. If the producers of the show are not getting any compensation for providing content for the network, why would they continue to do so?

Actually, the show/series sponsors and advertisers are the ones footing the bill. 3GN likely pays the network for the air time. It's semantics, but it's the way most of the shows on those networks operate.

Edited January 8, 2014 by davehorn