Minimum Distance for Rifle Steel targets

[Onagoth]

I personally prefer not to shoot rifles at steel less than 75y....preferably 100.

I've done it at various matches, but not something I'm totally comfortable with

[BOOST]

300BLK with TGIC powder coated bullets. Without coating I was still able to keep the barrel from leading so long the bullet was properly sized ,up to 1700fps.But gas tube and bcg got some. NiB-x bcg cleans easy. $10 Gas tube every 10K. But since I started powder coating , cleaning is no different than my 223 AR's with jacketed bullets.

[BOOST]

We have carbine matches maxed at 75yds . Majority of the targets within 50. I would like to make matches that have steel and also use them to activate movers. There's enough participants with 9mm and 300BLK AR's.

[Stlhead]

So basically you are shooting a pistol caliber carbine. Seems like an awful lot of effort, but as long as you are having fun! If you keep the velocities in the range of pistol bullets you should be fine having the steel at pistol ranges I would think, but I am not a very smart fellow, and could be terribly wrong.

[iroquois]

After an exhaustive amount of research and consulting with target making companies, there are five primary rules involved with shooting steel with a rifle.

• First, only shoot ammunition with projectiles made of lead or copper jacket with soft lead cores. No, hollow points (will dimple the plate), steel core, steel jacket, tungsten, uranium or any other exotic core. Also avoid using ammunition exceeding 3000 fps.
• The second is the brinell/hardness of the plate. For rifle, AR550 at 3/8" or 1/2" (for higher calibers) is the best option.
• The third rule is the steel needs to be completely flat/smooth with no craters, pits or damage. If craters are visible, it's not safe to shoot.
• The fourth and most important is the plate angle. The plates optimal angle is pointing down approx. 20 degrees to dissipate the bullets energy. This will also increase the target life. It's also imported to place a piece of plywood or pea gravel under the target it to catch any bullet fragments.
• Fifth and last, the plate target should be at least 100 yards for the safest distance for .223/5.56 or .308.

Also note, shotgun slugs also require a 100 yards.

[Flatland Shooter]

After an exhaustive amount of research and consulting with target making companies, there are five primary rules involved with shooting steel with a rifle.

• First, only shoot ammunition with projectiles made of lead or copper jacket with soft lead cores. No, hollow points (will dimple the plate), steel core, steel jacket, tungsten, uranium or any other exotic core. Also avoid using ammunition exceeding 3000 fps.
• The second is the brinell/hardness of the plate. For rifle, AR550 at 3/8" or 1/2" (for higher calibers) is the best option.
• The third rule is the steel needs to be completely flat/smooth with no craters, pits or damage. If craters are visible, it's not safe to shoot.
• The fourth and most important is the plate angle. The plates optimal angle is pointing down approx. 20 degrees to dissipate the bullets energy. This will also increase the target life. It's also imported to place a piece of plywood or pea gravel under the target it to catch any bullet fragments.
• Fifth and last, the plate target should be at least 100 yards for the safest distance for .223/5.56 or .308.

Also note, shotgun slugs also require a 100 yards.

"No hollow points (will dimple the plate)" caught me by surprise. Most of my hollow point loads are heavier bullets used past 200 yards and velocity is well below 3000' by then. Would they still be a problem on steel?

Bill

[Chuck Anderson]

I shot my 77 gr load on steel at 50 yards and didn't have a problem. That's the first I'm hearing of it as well. I'm not sure what the mechanism for damage would be with a JHP.

[Flatland Shooter]

I shot my 77 gr load on steel at 50 yards and didn't have a problem. That's the first I'm hearing of it as well. I'm not sure what the mechanism for damage would be with a JHP.

I have no scientific basis for any of it but I always figured hollow points would do less damage than FMJs. Logic does not always prevail.

[Chuck Anderson]

I'm kind of wondering if someone just looked at steel that has been dimpled and decided a hollow point did it. Normally with high velocity rifle ammo, when it dimples it leaves a little hump or nipple in the center. Looks like it was hit with a hollow point but it's not.

[mpeltier]

Who cares about a dimple anyway. Most steel I've seen at any venue has dimples. Most steel will work harden and crack before dimples cause any issues. What's the next complaint......"my paints flaking off from bullet impacts"?.....geez.

[Alaskapopo]

After an exhaustive amount of research and consulting with target making companies, there are five primary rules involved with shooting steel with a rifle.

• First, only shoot ammunition with projectiles made of lead or copper jacket with soft lead cores. No, hollow points (will dimple the plate), steel core, steel jacket, tungsten, uranium or any other exotic core. Also avoid using ammunition exceeding 3000 fps.
• The second is the brinell/hardness of the plate. For rifle, AR550 at 3/8" or 1/2" (for higher calibers) is the best option.
• The third rule is the steel needs to be completely flat/smooth with no craters, pits or damage. If craters are visible, it's not safe to shoot.
• The fourth and most important is the plate angle. The plates optimal angle is pointing down approx. 20 degrees to dissipate the bullets energy. This will also increase the target life. It's also imported to place a piece of plywood or pea gravel under the target it to catch any bullet fragments.
• Fifth and last, the plate target should be at least 100 yards for the safest distance for .223/5.56 or .308.

Also note, shotgun slugs also require a 100 yards.

We shoot shotgun slugs at 40 yards and out with no issues ever. 100 yard targets for slugs for the whole match would not make me very popular with the shooters. MGM's C zone steel can take hits very close. Heck the other day a friend of mine accidentally shot a piece of AR500 steel I have at 15 yards with a rifle and there was no noticeable mark beyond what it looks like at 100 yards. The issue there would be splash back. But it seems many people are over cautious. One club here has the opposite rule on JHP's they require them or soft points on their rifle steel and their steel is holding up fine for years now.

pat

Edited January 31, 2014 by Alaskapopo

[Chuck Anderson]

Who cares about a dimple anyway. Most steel I've seen at any venue has dimples. Most steel will work harden and crack before dimples cause any issues. What's the next complaint......"my paints flaking off from bullet impacts".....geez.

Dimples cause erratic behavior from the steel. Basically when a bullet hot the steel it shatters and the bullet fragments leave the target in a predictable manner. A cone of about 10 degrees. That's why when you look at the ground in front of a steel target that has been shot awhile there's a line in the dirt. If the steel is dimpled much thicker than about the width of a dime and you hit that dimple it changes that 10 degree cone. I've seen people seriously injured from steel in poor condition.

[mpeltier]

Who cares about a dimple anyway. Most steel I've seen at any venue has dimples. Most steel will work harden and crack before dimples cause any issues. What's the next complaint......"my paints flaking off from bullet impacts".....geez.

Dimples cause erratic behavior from the steel. Basically when a bullet hot the steel it shatters and the bullet fragments leave the target in a predictable manner. A cone of about 10 degrees. That's why when you look at the ground in front of a steel target that has been shot awhile there's a line in the dirt. If the steel is dimpled much thicker than about the width of a dime and you hit that dimple it changes that 10 degree cone. I've seen people seriously injured from steel in poor condition.

I hear what your saying. I think my problem lies within the definition of a dimple vs say a crater. What you describe is typical of what I have seen with soft steel and I have always called cratering, which as you stated is not good. Dimpling I have been previously thinking of is no bigger or deeper than dimples on a golf ball and is in my experiance harmless and normal.

[johnnny13]

5.3.19 Firing a shot at a metal target from a distance of less than 23 feet with a handgun, 147 feet with a rifle, 23 feet with a shotgun when using birdshot or buckshot ammunition, or 147 feet when using slug ammunition. The distance is measured from the face of the target to the nearest part of the competitor’s body in contact with the ground (see Rule [10.1.3]).

What about shooting a 308 at steel at 50 yards?

[Chuck Anderson]

What about it? .308 is a rifle. Minimum safe distance under the rules is 147 feet. Just like every other rifle. 308 rifle will actually do less damage because the velocity is less. I've seen steel shot at 10 yards with a .308 and not even a dimple.

[Sterling White]

Shoot targets until you wear them out and then replace them! ^^^^ this - the 49 yard rule as Chuck pointed out. Slugs....100-yards really?...LOL Again we consistently shoot slugs on steel at 50.

[MarkCO]

I've seen quality targets cored by .308s out of 24" barrels inside of about 80 yards. But it does depend a little on the angle and how the steel is "presented". Falling plates can be a tad closer than mounted plates. We broke a few targets on Saturday.

There are two issues, one is target longevity, the other is safety. For most MDs, target longevity is going to keep them beyond the minimum safe distances for rifle steel.

I try to keep rifle steel at 80 yards plus. I'd be okay with SG slugs closer, but I usually keep them between 50 and 75 yards.

I'm almost done with some testing on a few targets and I hope to have that up by the end of the month.

[MarkCO]

I shot my 77 gr load on steel at 50 yards and didn't have a problem. That's the first I'm hearing of it as well. I'm not sure what the mechanism for damage would be with a JHP.

50s at 3400 do a LOT more damage than 77s at 2600.

[Chuck Anderson]

I shot my 77 gr load on steel at 50 yards and didn't have a problem. That's the first I'm hearing of it as well. I'm not sure what the mechanism for damage would be with a JHP.

50s at 3400 do a LOT more damage than 77s at 2600.

No doubt, but I think it has more to do with velocity than whether it's an FMJ or a HP. That comment was related to a ban on HP rounds on steel.

[MarkCO]

I had 168 FMJs and 168 OTMs at the same velocity. The FMJs cored a steel plate I was testing at 56yards, the OTMs at 44 yards, there is a difference, but no reason to ban JHPs at all. Other than bullet material, velocity is the biggest factor.

OTMs tend to leave a slightly different shape, like the bottom of a mushroom, than a FMJ which just leaves a dimple. I do this kind of stuff for a living, but I was still a bit surprised at the various "signatures" different bullet construction types leave on steel. They become more distinct as the distance closes.

[jwfuhrman]

I'm sure Travis at MGM can attest to this, but we recommend, rather, specify to not shoot our(FPS/CMP) targets with a bullet traveling at 3000fps at IMPACT. It damages the steel AND has a higher likely hood of sending fragments back towards the shooter.

XM193 out of a 18 or 20in gun is really the only time you're gonna get a common produced/in high usage ammo, to even leave the barrel faster than 3000fps. Most of the general public has 16 or 14.5in guns and XM193 is traveling 2900 fps or slower at the muzzle.

I regularly shoot our steel targets at 25 yards and further with ZERO issue. Its static steel but the mount thats used sits on a standard metal fence post, so the target moves around and wobbles enough that any splash back or fragments are directed away from the shooter.

One of my 2/3rd IPSC AR500 targets has well over 3000 rounds impacted, with the majority of them coming from inside 50 yards with very minimal scarring issues.

[johnnny13]

My issue is that we have a 3 gun nation classifier coming up that requires steel at a distance of 50 yards. With people shooting heavy metal (308) this may cause them to incur a penalty by not being able to shoot.

[Dan Sierpina]

Why can't they shoot it with a .308?

[High Lord Gomer]

In addition to a down angle of the target, the ability for the target to "give' or move is of equal importance. MGM flashers are a great example. If they didn't swing back when hit the steel would have to absorb much more punishment.

[MarkCO]

Actually, that has little effect except for the mounts.