IMR powders SR-4756 & SR-7625 are being discontinued

[MrVvrroomm]

IMR powders SR-4756 & SR-7625 are being discontinued by Hodgdon. I got this info straight from the horse's mouth.

I picked up a certificate good for any 8lb powder from Hodgdon from a prize table last weekend.

I sent off the certificate with my request for 8lbs for 4756. I use this for my open gun chambered in 38 super.

I received an email from Chris Hodgdon today asking if I had a second or third choice in powders. He said they don't have any 4756 in stock, but will probably be getting it sometime in 2014. He also said they are discontinuing it in 2014. They will stop manufacturing all the IMR SR powders due to their high cost to manufacture.

I know there are many other powders out there, but 4756 works very well in both of my 38 super open guns.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Thanks for the heads up.

[rtp]

Well, that blows. Coming up on time to resupply on powder (9mm Minor PF), and I was considering either of those, as they seem to be somewhat easier to find lately than the WSF I'm running out of somewhat.

Seems to be not much point in developing a load if the powder's going to have a limited period to purchase it.

[Guest]

Losing these powders would be disappointing.

SR4756 in .38 super with 124gr bullets shoots soft, accurate, and fairly clean and was a favorite of mine in the "safe-for-major-load" powder quiver. Tried using it with 115grainers but it was a little too compressed for my tastes and a PITA to load, but I know others are running it.

Maybe a few emails to Hodgdon would get them to reconsider?

[MrVvrroomm]

Maybe a few emails to Hodgdon would get them to reconsider?

Chris at hodgdon dot com

[gm iprod]

The IMR SR range is made in Canada, that may be the problem with the costs, the Canadian Dollar is pretty high these days (well compared to the USD) and that adds into it somewhat. Plus they also have their version of the EPA and OSHA and they will ruin any party.

I suspect they could be replaced with a powder from Australia. There is a powder from ADI, AP100, that is used for 38Super major loads that is about the same burnrate as HS6, but is flake type, that may replace 4756.

7625 is about HP38 / Win 231 so the market is clogged with powder in that range, ADI AP50 is very close as well. So maybe a new Hodgdon flake powder in that range is coming. Who knows.

[MrVvrroomm]

Chris Hodgdon inkled their new CFE Pistol. I have requested an 8lb'er of it.

[Red Ryder]

Note: Threads merged here. - Admin.

I need your help folks! Hodgdon has informed me that IMR SR 7625 and other "SR" powders will be discontinued by end of 2014. IMR SR 7625 is an awesome powder to reload 9mm minor AND 9mm major. It works well for lead, moly and FMJ bullets of ALL bullet weights. Further more, Chris Hodgdon recommended Titegroup as an alternative powder for competition. Of course he is WRONG about this recommendation. Titegroup does not work well for Moly and lead bullets unless you want to throw out a huge smoke screen while you are shooting? Titegroup CANNOT be used for 9mm Major. Titegroup has questionable accuracy until you reach the 135 to 140 power factor range in my experience. Who wants that added recoil with a higher power factor? He also praises Titegroup for it's small charge weights. Personally, I like a powder that fills up the case more so double charging is NOT possible without making a huge mess all over the shell plate. While Titegroup may cost less to produce and have a higher margin for profit, it is NOT a good alternative to IMR SR 7625.

Personally, I think that Titegroup is a good economical powder for 9mm minor loads with FMJ bullets only, but it falls short of being versatile enough to meet everyone's needs. I am requesting your help in letting Chris Hodgdon know that we want IMR SR 7625 to be available to the hobby reloaders and shooters beyond 2014. Please email him at Chris@Hodgdon.com and let him know we want IMR SR 7625 to be available beyond 2014.

Thank you for your support.

135 grain Bayou Bullet with 4.1 grains of 7625 OAL of 1.135 makes 132 Power Factor out of a G34.

124 Grain Montana Gold CMJ or JHP with 4.6 grains of 7625 OAL 1.135 makes 130 power factor out of a G17 and 132 power factor in a G34.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Flexmoney

[Steve RA]

I'm under the impression he also recommended the new CFE Pistol - which supposedly will become available in early 2014.

Personally, I'd like to acquire some CFE .223, which is also supposed to again be available in 2014 !!!

[Red Ryder]

STEVE RA --- Chris Hodgdon did NOT mention CFE at all to me nor did he recommend it for competition use. I hope CFE pistol is the bee's knees! But until then I would like to keep 7625 around until we find out for ourselves. Please send him a message guys.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Red Ryder

[Sarge]

Does not look like it will happen.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=186600#entry2061006

[Flexmoney]

I merged the threads. - Admin

[Red Ryder]

Sarge

I read the post you linked and that started my investigation. Take my advise and send Chris an email. Thank you for your support!

Edited December 24, 2013 by Red Ryder

[Neomet]

I guess now would not be the time to mention the rumor that the new owners of VV are considering only selling Vit on government contracts. Rumor mind you, but still.....

[Sarge]

I guess now would not be the time to mention the rumor that the new owners of VV are considering only selling Vit on government contracts. Rumor mind you, but still.....

That's why I moved on from V V. Hard to get, expensive, rumors of plant closings, rumors about sales, rumors about distribution, etc..... It's hard enough to find what one needs to keep shooting in this game without all of that crap. Same thing with ZERO bullets. You can't shoot what you can't get so I have never even tried to get a ZERO bullet. In four years I don't even think I have ever actually seen a ZERO.

And, if I were going to email Hodgdon it would be to encourage them to step up the production of the mainline powders we normally use not to tie up production with powders that are marginally popular in my world.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Sarge

[gm iprod]

Sarge,

If they stepped up production on the popular stuff we would not get anything. The popular stuff is used by Ammo makers. Federal. Remington, Winchester, Hornady etc etc. There would be nothing for us. Besides Hodgdon don't make it they have it made for them. IMR in Canada (currently running at 100% of capacity), Ball Powder Hodg and Win) in Florida (currently running extra shifts) and Extruded in Australia. The Aussie plant is running full tilt, can't make anymore and even the stuff they make for the locals is in short supply, plus I heard about a huge foul up over one lot of pistol powder that will put some pressure on Hodgdon for a while.

I understand more Titegroup is in the pipeline for early 2014, just had my order for 32lb confirmed for shipping to MO early January.

VV factory has just been sold to Lapua (Nammo), the original owners (Eurenco / SNPE) had moved / lost government contracts to other plants in the group in France, and shut the plant for maintenance, then decided to stall that (costs) and sell it off. The only likely buyer was Nammo and they now have to bring it all back online.

Meanwhile we all sit here with no primers and powder.

Zero have just delivered 1/2 my order from May last year to my shipper, I will have them early January it appears. All Conical 115gr and 125gr HP due to start production in late January or there about. So we should have projectiles for the Bianchi Cup and World Shoot in May.

Now we need Starline and Federal to play the game and we are away.

[Justsomeguy]

These plant closings and other manipulations are helping no one, not even the owners who could have made more money producing more powder during this latest crisis. The problem seems to be that few powder manufacturers have gotten the memo that just in this country there are now more than 100 million shooters and they need ammo. The number increases monthly, and is not going to go down. Therefore new plant facilities are in order to keep up with ever growing demand. We have had primer and powder shortages for at least 10 years now. Who said that capitalism is all about finding a need and filling it? Whoever it was should be lecturing the powder and primer makers about the essentials of capitalism.

[gm iprod]

Capitalism needs one thing, capital. Try borrowing big money for capital expenditure (machines) right now in the US.

Next, try getting good staff!

[RDA]

Capitalism needs one thing, capital. Try borrowing big money for capital expenditure (machines) right now in the US.

Next, try getting good staff!

Although i am sure there are difficulties with both obtaining capital and good staff, I'd bet there are more issues with the regulatory/liability/insurance requirements of starting a new powder or primer manufacturer in the US than capital or staff.

Edited December 26, 2013 by RDA

[gm iprod]

I was more talking along the lines of adding capacity to an existing enterprise. Starting fresh would not be much fun, until I starting working my way up in the industry and now owning my own business, I was blissfully unaware of exactly how unhelpful the government actually is. I don't mind a reasonable fee for licencing etc, but downright deliberate obstructiveness is just unnecessary.

What they seem to forget is, the quicker a business gets going and takes on staff, the more money the government actually gets through the regular tax system. Sales Tax, Excise Tax, Payroll Tax from the staff, and if I can make a decent living then I will also be paying tax. But no. Fee for this, fee for that. Plus an inspection fee and don't actually do anything until we file that report. Oh by the way there is a report filing fee. Feck.

I know Sierra and Starline added capacity to their respective plants in the last 3 years. Starline still have a couple of machines in storage waiting on enough down time to take experienced staff of production to do the installation. They are running 24 x 6 right now. They won't go 24 x 7 as that leaves no time to do setups and maintenance. I believe a number of others have similar problems.

BTW, my Zero turned up today. None of the following 9mm 115 or 125gr JHP, 9mm 124gr fmj, 40cal 180GR JHP and 45ACP 230gr JHP. Next year, maybe.

[RDA]

gm iprod, I couldn't agree with you more. And honestly, all too often our governments are short sighted (take federal taxation and fee policies, budgeting, and borrowing strategy are obvious examples) and they are an impediment to proper growth rather than a facilitator.

The firearms industry (and all the various support companies) are under a continuing and on-going attack that shows no signs of ever stopping, there will always be a large number of government personnel coupled with a large segment of society that see all of them as a threat. Expanding is surely very expensive and cumbersome with the prospect of being shut down despite your best efforts to run a proper, law abiding company is a distinct possibility.

[TonyK]

Everyone seems to have missed the fact that Remington is spending $32 million dollars to add to their ammunition facility in Arkansas.... Supposed to be online sometime in 2014 the last I heard.

And I would hazard a guess that more so than capital the biggest difficulty to expanding or starting anything to do with ammunition would be obtaining the people to staff it. I doubt there are a bunch of unemployed folks from the ammo companies walking around looking for work. It's not like they are just installing a bunch of 1050's and need people to pull the handle's.

And considering the current political climate was the best thing to happen to the firearms industry (based on the sheer volume of sales of guns and ammo) I doubt you would have a difficult time finding even large amounts of capitol to fund expansion. Large corporations have always found ways to deal with government regs. And where there is money to be made, money finds its way to it...

It will be interesting after all of this has passed and look at what the reality of the story is....

[RDA]

I find it hard to believe that manufacturing companies can't find quality people to staff their facilities. I don't know how many people Remington will need to hire, what the qualifications are nor the compensation/benefits, but last I checked, we aren't running at 0% unemployment or anything near it and there are all too many people in the US who have seen their manufacturing job head overseas so any new manufacturing jobs in the US are surely outweighed by manufacturing jobs lost.

[TonyK]

Quality people? We have thousands of them but the ones with the skills required to run and maintain complex loading machines are few and far between. And how long would it take to train someone from scratch? I can sympathize with the folks looking for labor, the company I work for can hardly find unskilled labor for menial jobs even with all of our unemployment.

And I too hate the fact many jobs are headed overseas frequently with a subsequent drop in quality. I don't want ammo (or components for that matter) made by unskilled labor.

But to get back to the original post... I really hope they find a way to keep 7625 available. I have some loads for it that I really like. Its a good powder that deserves to stick around.

And as a side note. Hodgdon doesn't exactly have powder "made for them" as stated in one of the other posts. They own IMR. They are also one of the largest powder distributors in the world. And they must be doing something right or I don't think that Winchester would have licensed them to make their powders. And I did read something once that 80% of their business is for re-loaders, this must have something to do with the fact that virtually all of the powders I have found over the last 6 months have been theirs....

[gm iprod]

TonyK, I stand corrected on the IMR thing, clean forgot about that. Winchester licensed them to sell the Powder as Winchester was essentially being hammered by Hodgdon's superior sales and distribution. You should have tried to get WInchester powders in this part of the world until Hodgdon took over, Hodgdon was essentially selling on large amounts the very powders that WInchester were discontinuing, HS6 - 540 and HS7 - 571, to name but two. They are more efficient than most in this industry at getting what people want.

Hodgdon are said to be releasing TG late February I believe. What Hodgdon are likely to do is replace the IMR powders that they are discontinuing with some thing similar, this will be useful for those that use those powders. Some adjustments will be required I am sure, some people will not find the replacement to their satisfaction, that will be unfortunate.