bonglee0507 Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 He placed 2nd in the modified division last 2011 world shoot and now he's playing classic division Sent from my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohete Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I have come across with this same problem, when doing a super light trigger pull (under a pound) for a very fast shooter. The hammer would follow and catch on the hammer's safety notch. It would not follow when I shot the pistol, but it did for him. The pistol was a Limited on a Bull frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediwarrior Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 Thanks for sharing your experiences guys! I appreciate any info on this. I knew this wasn't an isolated case, and that top shooters share common techniques and problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaeOne3345 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) I had this problem for a long time until I finally just brought the trigger pull back up to 2.25-2.5 lbs. I was one of those guys that HAD to have a 1.5 lb trigger. Not anymore. I made sure the sear spring width was correct, gunsmith checked proper engagement, proper sear spring adjustment, etc. Since raising the trigger pull up I haven't had one issue. The holes for the pins in my frame are aligned correctly as well. I went through 3 different ignition kits thinking it was the issue. My opinion based on my own experience is that super light triggers can be done on Limited guns, where the recoil/impact is much harsher than an open gun, but the margin for error is much smaller. A lot more banging and clanging on a Limited gun with 10-12 lb springs and major loads, as opposed to a compensated open gun. Edit: I must confess that I ride the trigger more than I slap it. I spent a long time shooting glocks before I got into 1911/2011's. Seems to only be an issue with people who ride the trigger. Edited November 25, 2013 by JaeOne3345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I think it is trigger bounce from not enough over-travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I would agree it needs more over travel. Which will increase the reset length and eliminate a potential bump fire with a shooter that rides the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediwarrior Posted November 27, 2013 Author Share Posted November 27, 2013 Thanks guys, I will share your views with the shooter when he gets back from an overseas match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark dye Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 This problem has been discussed on here before, it would be worth searching it. I fought this problem for a long time with a good customer and friend of mine. It is incredibly frustrating when the gunsmith can't replicate the problem. As others have mentioned, it usually occurs with good shooters who are capable of very fast splits AND who spent a lot of time shooting Glocks. The "find the reset point" style of shooting is really the root cause. This is tough to try to explain to a GM level guy who feels like his trigger technique is what has gotten him to that level in the first place! If the trigger is returned to just the right position as the gun cycles, I think you can get a funny bounce of the disconnector when it tries to rise and the sear gets tripped in the process (just my theory). I have talked to a lot of well known gunsmiths regarding this matter, but have never gotten a "magic bullet" type of answer...just ideas of what to try. For the previously mentioned case, the fix was to increase sear engagement considerably and increase overtravel. I think the overtravel portion only helped because it made it a little more difficult for him to find the exact reset point. Other shooters with this predicament have had to go to much heavier pull weights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) Hello, a customer of mine has a unique problem. He could replicate it happening in my shop. He rests lightly, NOT PRESS, his finger on the trigger and releases the slide from the locked open position. It goes halfcock sometimes. If I do not touch the trigger, or if I fully press the trigger and release the slide, the hammer would NOT halfcock. I fired his gun slow and fast, but I could not duplicate his halfcock. On other words, his gun and trigger work is sound for us ordinary shooters. I then got other pistols in my shop, a single stack 40 and an STI hi-cap 40 with 2.5 lb. trigger pulls, and we were able to replicate it using his static test of resting finger on trigger and releasing slide. I then thought that his static test would cause "normal" guns (unless the trigger pull is really heavy) to go halfcock. Has anyone experienced this, and if so, what did you do to prevent this halfcocking from happening? I have been thinking about this for 2 days now, and I just can't figure out how to help him. It sounds like the inertia of the slide coming forward hitting the frame rocks it forward just enough against the trigger finger to let the sear nose slip off the full cock notch and it falls to half cock. It is a result of trying to hold the trigger too far back to get a fast reset. This can never happen if the trigger remains fully rearward after ignition until the slide locks into battery and the trigger is then released and repulled. Edited December 4, 2013 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Hello, a customer of mine has a unique problem. When he shoots a fast double tap, sometimes the hammer goes halfcock.///// I have been thinking about this for 2 days now, and I just can't figure out how to help him. I can't help but think this is like the time the guy went to the doctor: "Hey, Doc..... everytime I move my arm like this, it hurts like hell." DOC: "Then you really gotta stop doing that....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) I would lean toward the quick-release idea more than the ride-the-reset theory. I don't think either TGO or Smitty is known for Glock shooting but both had this problem; it's their crazy-short splits - they can release the trigger forward before the slide closes. Hand their gun to someone else and the problem vanishes. TGO is one of the original trigger slappers, he's been shooting that way since before my oldest VHS tape of the Nationals. Edited December 5, 2013 by eric nielsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carter Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I had a customer that had that problem. Like you I tried everything but to keep the pull weight down where he wanted it the final answer was to increase the overtravel along with playing with the sear spring ballance. He could make the hammer follow on a bone stock Colt with enough tries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbet83 Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I would lean toward the quick-release idea more than the ride-the-reset theory. I don't think either TGO or Smitty is known for Glock shooting but both had this problem; it's their crazy-short splits - they can release the trigger forward before the slide closes. Hand their gun to someone else and the problem vanishes. TGO is one of the original trigger slappers, he's been shooting that way since before my oldest VHS tape of the Nationals. Responses like these don't help the op in the least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediwarrior Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 Asking the shooter to change his shooting style/technique doesn't give much confidence as he doesn't know when not to do it. Ideally, you tailor the gun to the shooter, within certain limits. So any mechanical improvements on the gun would be welcome. Thanks Jrbet83. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 bevel(very slightly) polish feet of sear, same to the surfaces of the disconnector that interact with sear feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstagn Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Just saw this post. My p14-45 para will sometimes have the hammer go almost all the way forward but not hit the firing pin when there is no mag in the gun and the slide is released with the slide release lever. It does not happen every time and never happens if there is a mag in with ammo. Trigger pull is 21/4 to 21/2 lbs. Normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediwarrior Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hi jstagn, No, not normal. But, I've seen this on some Paras. I think it's a combination of several factors, including loose tolerances on the sear, sear pin, hammer, trigger, heavy recoil spring, etc...... Eventually, the half cock on the hammer will break if your Para has the newer MIM hammer. Did you adjust the sear spring to make it lighter? And did you remove the Series 80 parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Just saw this post. My p14-45 para will sometimes have the hammer go almost all the way forward but not hit the firing pin when there is no mag in the gun and the slide is released with the slide release lever. It does not happen every time and never happens if there is a mag in with ammo. Trigger pull is 21/4 to 21/2 lbs. Normal?That is called hammer follow, it's not normal and is potentially dangerous. The slide hitting the frame coming into battery is jarring it sufficiently that the hammer slips off the full cock notch and falls to half cock notch. The likely reason it doesn't do it with a mag/ammo is because stripping the round and forcing it in slows the slide slightly. The "empty slide drop" test is done to see if the trigger job was screwed up or the gun needs work. Hammer follow is a fail and means the gun needs fixing. Edited January 13, 2014 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstagn Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Work was done by a gunsmith. Series 80 removed and spacer plates put in, no side to side play. It happen on my old para and the new one. I never noticed before on the old para. It does not happen each time but maybe every 5-10 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediwarrior Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 In that case, the smith did not do a good job. Hammer follow is potentially dangerous. It is difficult to get a good light pull on a Para as the trigger bow is made of steel, and thus, heavy. You may need to have him rework your gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstagn Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Thanks Jedi, the trigger was replaced by a short guncraft trigger, right from the start, but I will have him check everything. Trigger is about 2 1/2 lbs. Other mods were pin grip safety, Wilson wide stainless thumb safety, also changed magwell with a dawson (like aluminum look better than stock black) , plus a stainless beavertail blended narrower than stock. Stock sear,hammer. Gun is a para p14-45 pro custom. About 200 rounds so far....Again, Thanks...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstagn Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Looks like the problem was junk hammer/sear parts from Para. Will be putting in Wilson hammer/sear....Thanks to all who helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Maybe check that before you buy. Some of the Wilson stuff is junk too. Best bet for fire control parts are EGW and SV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnyglock Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 +1 on the trigger parts. Go EGW or SV Infinity. Extreme is not bad either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediwarrior Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Yes, Para uses MIM parts, which are junk. Go what the guys recommend above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now