3 Gun Nation Regional Series Updates

[Jesse Tischauser]

Other way to boost regional is to say pro series is for pros and regional series is for everyone else. This would take 50 guys out of the mix, and spread the prize tables to others. Let the guys that want to shoot the pro series do that and make the regional for non pros only. If you sign up for the pro series you are not eligible for the regional.

These matches aren't anything like the Pro Series. If you want to exclude the "pros" you can go shoot the amateur national championship. It didn't fill up and there was no computer crashes either.

[AustinT]

Sorry.....but ANYONE who says "these people should get preference" or "the people who want to shoot all of them should get spots first" sound like their version of "fair" is to include themselves and let everyone else fight over the scraps.

You want it truly fair, do it how they intended to do it in the first place....just competently! No one person or group of people gets preferential treatment, no one willing to commit to giving more money gets a spot first, and no group of people who paid into the semipro series last year gets first dibs!

1: I am one of the 119 semi pros from last year. I had to pay $50 to be one, I didn't have to shoot a qualifier match to be considered a semipro. I do NOT think I should be given preferential treatment when signing up for a match.

2: I have the financial means to shoot every 3GunNation and non 3GunNation match that I want to shoot. Just because I can afford to financially does not mean I can afford to in time and missed time with my kids. Just because I can afford it and skip out on the match does NOT mean I should be given preferential treatment.

3: The holiday debacle was arrogance. Not so much that it was arrogant people, but an arrogant idea of showing families how dedicated shooters are to 3-Gun and, in part 3GunNation, by pulling them away from their families on a holiday. It was a dumb idea and SOMEONE in the chain of command had to of said so at some time in that thought process! Our families see us practice shotgun reloads, pistol reloads, dry fire, look at range footage, post to YouTube channels, and bring up every detail that our families could care less about....:taking time away from a holiday to show family members how committed shooters are...please!

4: Taking spots away from shooters who did manage to get in thru a failed system obviously sucks for us shooters! I do get it tho. By some stroke of luck we slipped thru the barbed wire gauntlet of "fail" to find success where others got "white screens of death"

5: Forcing people to pay $25 to be a member in order to have a CHANCE at getting a spot seems ill advised. If any individual match charged $25 to log into a website for a shot at their match, the shooters would be throwing a bigger fit than they are here. I'm not going to ask for my $25 back for two reasons, 1. I've spent more than that for a magazine subscription before, 2. It's not worth the headache! I do not fault anyone who would want their money back and to cut ties after a bad experience....it's customer service IMO.

I haven't made my mind up if I will try to enter again when the new dates are announced. I planned to shoot TO because the prize table is usually better than TI or HMO, but not caring much about if I made the top 25 semipro. My biggest motivation for shooting the Midwest Regional over the ProAm was that I only had to take a single day off work for a comparable match, but if it's going to be this big of a headache, an extra day off work isnt that big of a deal!

Well said. My thoughts exactly. Intentional or not, it is the height of arrogance to require shooters to prepay a non-refundable $25 for a chance to sign up, then require them to sign up on Thanksgiving night on an insufficiently tested software/hardware combination. Those are the reasons why I chose not to even bother attempting to sign up, thought I am currently #14 in the semi-pro series and expect to continue to move up next year. Oh well.

I have said before that 3GN is getting a little big for its britches, and this entire debacle shows it. I support them and what they do for our sport, but a little humility would help keep these hard lessons learned at bay.

[outerlimits]

C'mon, guys. They are just trying to make enuf money to buy an HD camera for the broadcasts.

[D__]

I don't know if people got in and some didn't at 9EST. I could not get into anything at 9 like anyone else - I couldnt get onto the site for about 6 or 7 minutes prior to 9. I got into the matches 1.5 to 2.5 hours later is because I kept trying for that long.

Hopefully these matches are good and 3GN thrives. If it does it wont be because of the way the organization's being run right now.

[D__]

I don't know if people got in and some didn't at 9EST. I could not get into anything at 9 like anyone else - I couldnt get onto the site for about 6 or 7 minutes prior to 9. I got into the matches 1.5 to 2.5 hours later is because I kept trying for that long.

Hopefully these matches are good and 3GN thrives. If it does it wont be because of the way the organization's being run right now.

[Jesse Tischauser]

I don't know if people got in and some didn't at 9EST. I could not get into anything at 9 like anyone else - I couldnt get onto the site for about 6 or 7 minutes prior to 9. I got into the matches 1.5 to 2.5 hours later is because I kept trying for that long.

Hopefully these matches are good and 3GN thrives. If it does it wont be because of the way the organization's being run right now.

At 10:36 registration was closed. How did you get in between 10:30-11:30? Did you use the cheat code "OUTLAW"?

[D__]

N9 spent my time refreshing instead of online bashing.

[45shooter]

I got in at 1100. It said you are registered. But never got email. Main problem was this never really worked for fort benning. Wonder if they were warned and ignored it or just thought they had it fixed. I think they are trying to do what is right for sport but are having growing pains. I shot the pro series and still feel that regionals should be for non pros. Have guys decide what they want to shoot. This would give up and coming shooters a great series and hopefully then pro prizes and payout would also grow.

Edited November 29, 2013 by 45shooter

[El Guapo]

I got in at 1100. It said you are registered. But never got email. Main problem was this never really worked for fort benning. Wonder if they were warned and ignored it or just thought they had it fixed. I think they are trying to do what is right for sport but are having growing pains. I shot the pro series and still feel that regionals should be for non pros. Have guys decide what they want to shoot. This would give up and coming shooters a great series and hopefully then pro prizes and payout would also grow.

+ 1

[Lead-Head]

Here is a compromise. If you got registered, you get to pic one match you can stay in.

After that you must reregister for the others

Edited November 30, 2013 by Lead-Head

[Flatland Shooter]

The $25 fee some are referring to, is that the 2014 annual dues?

Or were we supposed to sign up for "semi-pro" for $25 to be eligible to sign up for the regional matches?

[apetrulis01]

Well I actually got a call from one of the Match Directors from 3GN after submitting comments on their website. We talked for about 10 minutes and I express my views about how I thought it was unfair that the people that stuck with it do not get to keep their slots. He stated he understood my concerns but 3GN nation felt this was the best policy. He advised me that they were going to opening the registration again soon and to keep a watch out. He also stated that only about 100 people were able to sign up for a match.

Granted they are still going with the redo but I give props to 3GN for actually calling individuals that submitted concerns and trying to address them with a personal conversation rather then a blanket email.

+1 for 3GN on that. I will be waiting to sign up again, must companies wouldn't have made phone calls.

Adam

[co-exprs]

I don't disagree, but to be fair.. USPSA has required memebership to attend thier mid to large matches for decades.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Was I dreaming last night or did I see a complete rule set for the Regional matches?

[BigBets]

Here is the other problem. These regionals are the only way for semi pros to qualify for the pro series qual match next year. It is possible and it happened to me that a person could be top 25 semi pro this year and not even be able to register for a match next year that let's them try again for the pro series based off a computer program or it's glitches. If the only way to qualify for the pro series is these matches how do you not exclude someone who had bad internet connection over thanksgiving or never even got the chance because the server was down but has the perserverence to practice and perform to try to get to the top level of this game.

[Chills1994]

I take it that 3Gun Nation is a for profit business, like IDPA, but unlike USPSA or the NRA as a 501 ( c ) (3) non-profit???

Edited November 30, 2013 by Chills1994

[D__]

Here is the other problem. These regionals are the only way for semi pros to qualify for the pro series qual match next year. It is possible and it happened to me that a person could be top 25 semi pro this year and not even be able to register for a match next year that let's them try again for the pro series based off a computer program or it's glitches. If the only way to qualify for the pro series is these matches how do you not exclude someone who had bad internet connection over thanksgiving or never even got the chance because the server was down but has the perserverence to practice and perform to try to get to the top level of this game.

Or lets say the big guns show at half and not at the other half. Scores can swing quite a ways that way.

[Lead-Head]

Here is the other problem. These regionals are the only way for semi pros to qualify for the pro series qual match next year. It is possible and it happened to me that a person could be top 25 semi pro this year and not even be able to register for a match next year that let's them try again for the pro series based off a computer program or it's glitches. If the only way to qualify for the pro series is these matches how do you not exclude someone who had bad internet connection over thanksgiving or never even got the chance because the server was down but has the perserverence to practice and perform to try to get to the top level of this game.

Or lets say the big guns show at half and not at the other half. Scores can swing quite a ways that way.

That has been looked at before...the swing can be significant.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Here is the other problem. These regionals are the only way for semi pros to qualify for the pro series qual match next year. It is possible and it happened to me that a person could be top 25 semi pro this year and not even be able to register for a match next year that let's them try again for the pro series based off a computer program or it's glitches. If the only way to qualify for the pro series is these matches how do you not exclude someone who had bad internet connection over thanksgiving or never even got the chance because the server was down but has the perserverence to practice and perform to try to get to the top level of this game.

Or lets say the big guns show at half and not at the other half. Scores can swing quite a ways that way.

That has been looked at before...the swing can be significant.

Aside from keeping the "Pro" shooters out, there is no way to keep that from happening. There are top level shooters who want nothing to do with the 3GunNation pro series and could easily show up to half of those matches to cause the exact same issue. I'm afraid it is an issue that isn't easily resolved. Only way I could see around this would be to score the semipro points based upon the non-pro series shooters. Essentially, if the top points earned for semipro scores 88% of Daniel Horner's time.....his score would be 100pts and the other points earners scores would be based upon his time. IMO, that's the only way to score the semi pro points series fairly across the board.

I remember backing out of the 3GN International match thinking someone would pick up major points since it was a smaller match, less people, and not likely to have pros. Horner came to the match and proved me wrong! Midwest3Gun had a couple guys pick up major points, and I think that Ozarks would have likely been the same IMO.

[Chills1994]

I'm watching 3 Gun Nation for the second time, ever.

[Chills1994]

Whoops! That wasn't Bryan Ray for the second time.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Here is the other problem. These regionals are the only way for semi pros to qualify for the pro series qual match next year. It is possible and it happened to me that a person could be top 25 semi pro this year and not even be able to register for a match next year that let's them try again for the pro series based off a computer program or it's glitches. If the only way to qualify for the pro series is these matches how do you not exclude someone who had bad internet connection over thanksgiving or never even got the chance because the server was down but has the perserverence to practice and perform to try to get to the top level of this game.

I had 150 people trying to register just to keep you out. I don't want anymore Ravin Perry's or BJ Norris' sneaking in to take my spot in the top 10.

[Donnybrook]

Sorry.....but ANYONE who says "these people should get preference" or "the people who want to shoot all of them should get spots first" sound like their version of "fair" is to include themselves and let everyone else fight over the scraps.

You want it truly fair, do it how they intended to do it in the first place....just competently! No one person or group of people gets preferential treatment, no one willing to commit to giving more money gets a spot first, and no group of people who paid into the semipro series last year gets first dibs!

1: I am one of the 119 semi pros from last year. I had to pay $50 to be one, I didn't have to shoot a qualifier match to be considered a semipro. I do NOT think I should be given preferential treatment when signing up for a match.

2: I have the financial means to shoot every 3GunNation and non 3GunNation match that I want to shoot. Just because I can afford to financially does not mean I can afford to in time and missed time with my kids. Just because I can afford it and skip out on the match does NOT mean I should be given preferential treatment.

3: The holiday debacle was arrogance. Not so much that it was arrogant people, but an arrogant idea of showing families how dedicated shooters are to 3-Gun and, in part 3GunNation, by pulling them away from their families on a holiday. It was a dumb idea and SOMEONE in the chain of command had to of said so at some time in that thought process! Our families see us practice shotgun reloads, pistol reloads, dry fire, look at range footage, post to YouTube channels, and bring up every detail that our families could care less about....:taking time away from a holiday to show family members how committed shooters are...please!

4: Taking spots away from shooters who did manage to get in thru a failed system obviously sucks for us shooters! I do get it tho. By some stroke of luck we slipped thru the barbed wire gauntlet of "fail" to find success where others got "white screens of death"

5: Forcing people to pay $25 to be a member in order to have a CHANCE at getting a spot seems ill advised. If any individual match charged $25 to log into a website for a shot at their match, the shooters would be throwing a bigger fit than they are here. I'm not going to ask for my $25 back for two reasons, 1. I've spent more than that for a magazine subscription before, 2. It's not worth the headache! I do not fault anyone who would want their money back and to cut ties after a bad experience....it's customer service IMO.

I haven't made my mind up if I will try to enter again when the new dates are announced. I planned to shoot TO because the prize table is usually better than TI or HMO, but not caring much about if I made the top 25 semipro. My biggest motivation for shooting the Midwest Regional over the ProAm was that I only had to take a single day off work for a comparable match, but if it's going to be this big of a headache, an extra day off work isnt that big of a deal!

Mr. NuTZ I do not shoot the Semi-Pro Series, just the Club Series. So, your assumption that I am looking out for numero uno is WRONG!. The reason I made that statement is because as you know 3GN will only give points to Semi-Pros in regionals. Common sense would dictate that maybe Semi-Pros should be able to shoot one of those matches to put up a score for the Pro Series qualifier. Maybe I don't understand what the benefit of the Semi-Pro Series is if your unwilling qualify for the Pro Series. Why would you pay the extra $25? I do agree that just registering as Semi-Pro should not give you preference as it would be easily abused.

In my earlier post I was trying to make a point that it appears that every 3GN member who wants to shoot a regional, should be able to shoot a regional if members are only intially allowed to register for one match.

Have a nice day.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Your EXACT quote: "Since the Semi-Pros have ponied up the extra $25 and can only get points in these matches it only makes sense they get first crack."

I ponied up the extra $25 in 2013 and am one of the 119 people who made up the semi pro points series in 2013. I did NOT pay the extra $25 this year as I don't have the interest, but HAD to pay $25 I originally did not intend to spend just to have a chance at registering for a match. If it meant I was guaranteed a match spot, spending another $25 is a no brainer because I can always refuse to attend the qualifier down the road if I scored high enough! Point is, what you suggest is giving preference to anyone who wants to spend an extra $25.......or give preference to anyone who spent that $25 for the 2013.

Edited for politeness.

Edited November 30, 2013 by EaZeNuTZ33

[EaZeNuTZ33]

The assumption is for ANYONE who is pointing out who should get preferential treatment. Regardless of intentions, it will be perceived that way!

IMO.....no one person deserves preferential treatment in any way, ever, if you want fairness and an equal opportunity at getting new shooters into the sport and into the matches. Sponsor spots are a perk of a company sponsoring matches with money and prizes, those are purchased spots and not what I would consider preferential treatment.