Traveling RO's vs Stage RO's ?

[toothandnail]

Which do you prefer at a match and why?

Do any matches state which they will have?

I have shot both, and been an RO at both, I have my preferences, and will post later. Just wondering . . . . . . Pro's / Cons of each.

PLEASE don't post names or places, that is not wanted or intended.

[Flatland Shooter]

All the "majors" I've attended have RO's assigned to a stage. All of the "local" club matches have traveling ROs.

I like having an RO assigned to a stage simply because the stage will be presented equally to all shooters. Start positions, are penalties per shot fired or one penalty only for an infraction, and such will be consistent throughout the match.

But assigned ROs want to shoot too. That may add a day to the match just to take care of them.

Traveling ROs shoot with the squad they are assigned. Inconsistent start positions, improper awarding of penalties and a little too much flexibility to the rules can be seen when a small group of good friends squad together. It should not happen but it does. Better WSBs sometimes helps, sometimes they are ignored.

Bill

[Benelli Chick]

Same:

Stationary RO's for consistency - but this can be more than one day added for the RO's to have a chance to shoot decent. BIG MATCHES - depending on the number of squads, stationary RO's can use less RO's, but again, they have to shoot. They also get a rhythm and can turn the stage around much more quickly than a brand new squad that doesn't know the easiest way to score and reset the stage. If you have a smaller match with lots of stages, then travelling RO's use less people!

Travelling RO's are okay, but it's hard to be sure the stages are run the same, even with detailed stage descriptions. There is always room for interpretation. But, they do allow stages to be set-up right before the match starts...which can add other surprises as well, but with limited time or a limited number of RO's...

With stationary RO's, once it's interpreted, it stays the same, even if it wasn't the interpretation planned!

[Doug H.]

Same:

Stationary RO's for consistency - but this can be more than one day added for the RO's to have a chance to shoot decent. BIG MATCHES - depending on the number of squads, stationary RO's can use less RO's, but again, they have to shoot. They also get a rhythm and can turn the stage around much more quickly than a brand new squad that doesn't know the easiest way to score and reset the stage. If you have a smaller match with lots of stages, then travelling RO's use less people!

Travelling RO's are okay, but it's hard to be sure the stages are run the same, even with detailed stage descriptions. There is always room for interpretation. But, they do allow stages to be set-up right before the match starts...which can add other surprises as well, but with limited time or a limited number of RO's...

With stationary RO's, once it's interpreted, it stays the same, even if it wasn't the interpretation planned!

Bonus Target!!!

[Benelli Chick]

Same:

Stationary RO's for consistency - but this can be more than one day added for the RO's to have a chance to shoot decent. BIG MATCHES - depending on the number of squads, stationary RO's can use less RO's, but again, they have to shoot. They also get a rhythm and can turn the stage around much more quickly than a brand new squad that doesn't know the easiest way to score and reset the stage. If you have a smaller match with lots of stages, then travelling RO's use less people!

Travelling RO's are okay, but it's hard to be sure the stages are run the same, even with detailed stage descriptions. There is always room for interpretation. But, they do allow stages to be set-up right before the match starts...which can add other surprises as well, but with limited time or a limited number of RO's...

With stationary RO's, once it's interpreted, it stays the same, even if it wasn't the interpretation planned!

Bonus Target!!!

I needed that! I almost peed myself!

[Doug H.]

Prize matches need to have Stage ROs because like Denise said, the stage is run the same from shooter to shooter. Non prize matches can use fixed or traveling ROs. I have seen it even in RO matches where someone makes an interpretation of the stage description and it can make a mess of a match. Re-shooting entire squads or throwing out stages can be necessary when the stages are run inconsistently or incorrectly.

Doug

[Doug H.]

Same:

Stationary RO's for consistency - but this can be more than one day added for the RO's to have a chance to shoot decent. BIG MATCHES - depending on the number of squads, stationary RO's can use less RO's, but again, they have to shoot. They also get a rhythm and can turn the stage around much more quickly than a brand new squad that doesn't know the easiest way to score and reset the stage. If you have a smaller match with lots of stages, then travelling RO's use less people!

Travelling RO's are okay, but it's hard to be sure the stages are run the same, even with detailed stage descriptions. There is always room for interpretation. But, they do allow stages to be set-up right before the match starts...which can add other surprises as well, but with limited time or a limited number of RO's...

With stationary RO's, once it's interpreted, it stays the same, even if it wasn't the interpretation planned!

Bonus Target!!!

I needed that! I almost peed myself!

If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem! (or in this case I was the problem)

Doug

[toothandnail]

Flatland & BC , summed it up VERY good, my thoughts / experiences exactaly.

Maybe my memory is failing (it is) or maybe I need to get out more, but it seems to me the trend in the last couple of years has been trending toward traveling RO's

Also with T-RO's, seems to be quite a lot of time spent on each stage discussing/figuring out how the stage was intended to be shot, NOT intentionally making it easier but everyones interpretation of the stage discription will be a little different.

Then you will have the occasional lenient RO, which is GREAT if your on that squad, not so much if your not.

[ziebart]

Local fun match traveling ROs make the most sense. Prize matches need at least one stationary RO per stage. If the MD can't get enough help for 2 then having the squad mark the score can be done, but it invites trouble. It's harder on the one RO without someone to back him up. I have seen match scores can be messed up when people do not understand the penalties and were marking their own squads scores down. Flying clays and calling hits on steel compound the issue and really need 2 match provided ROs for consistency.

I have been to a pistol match where they had ROs shoot through the match with the main competitors. I think at least 1 of the stage ROs was left on the stage while the other shot. This kept things semi consistent and let them shoot without adding too much time to the match. I don't know how well the ROs shot as they were probably still rushed, but maybe a combination could be worked out.

Edited November 3, 2013 by ziebart

[CJW]

One of the best run matches I have been to (it was a pistol match) did something very interesting. I think they had something like 4 ROs per stage (which, obviously, also means 4 ROs per squad). They assigned 3 ROs to each stage (one CRO and two assistants) and then assigned one RO to each squad The "squad mom" RO kept track of scoresheets (this was pre-Practiscore) and squad-to-stage logistics; basically, the squad was his primary responsibility. And whatever stage the squad was on, the "squad mom" pitched in as one of the extra ROs to help out.

I have yet to see something like that tried at a 3-Gun match; granted, a lot of matches don't have that much manpower to work with. On the other hand, it could work at a place like FNH3G where Howard gets about 20 ROs per stage :-) to help him out. The traveling RO would be able to take jobs like managing the preload table, verifying any paper backups of the Practiscore entries, &c.

[abn-rgr]

Stationary is definitely needed for any large level match. Local matches for bragging rights, I think traveling RO's are fine.

[Flatland Shooter]

One of the best run matches I have been to (it was a pistol match) did something very interesting. I think they had something like 4 ROs per stage (which, obviously, also means 4 ROs per squad).

Nice but it might require higher match fees.

Typically the ROs get to shoot for free along with some other perks. Double the staff and it cuts into the match's profit picture. If those profits are what the Section or club is relying on to keep monthly matches affordable, then something has to give.

Bill

[Jim Norman]

Anything larger than a Club Match should have Dedicated ROs. SOme matches have one that acts as the CRO an dthe shooters deal with al lthe rest. Ohters have two or three or maybe a couple more, and one has 7-9 ROs so the shooters don't have to do anything but shoot. Match fees vary, Prizes vary, I am sure the costs associated vary considerably.

When I travel to a big match I want consistant ROing. I am not going to place in the top 1-% I know htat, but the calls for me an dthe calls for the best of the best should be the same. With good dedicated ROs you can get this. with traveling ROs it is probably impossible even if there is zero intent to do otehrwise. Things will be seen differntly form different points of view, from different positions simply because the people are different.

Jim

[gng4life]

I have done both also, shot and worked. I always prefer a stage RO just for the continuity. I'm actually looking at the idea of doing this at some local matches as I have some guys willing to stay at one stage during the match. We'll see...

[toothandnail]

I have yet to see something like that tried at a 3-Gun match; granted, a lot of matches don't have that much manpower to work with. On the other hand, it could work at a place like FNH3G where Howard gets about 20 ROs per stage :-) to help him out. The traveling RO would be able to take jobs like managing the preload table, verifying any paper backups of the Practiscore entries, &c.

I believe the NEW replacement match for the Ozarks match ( I forgot the name just now) is planning on 3 RO's per stage.

[sperman]

With stationary RO's, once it's interpreted, it stays the same, even if it wasn't the interpretation planned!

Except for the day the ROs shoot, where you have at least 2 CRO's per squad.

[Flatland Shooter]

With stationary RO's, once it's interpreted, it stays the same, even if it wasn't the interpretation planned!

Except for the day the ROs shoot, where you have at least 2 CRO's per squad.

Locally we try to have all the ROs shoot in one squad. All ROs get the chance to critique the stage and discuss possible problems and solutions before any paid competitors can hit the range. Questions and problems after that are the RM's responsibility.

Bill

[philg80]

I have done both and understand the need to do both.......at one point as the RO running a squad through.....you HOPE that the way you ran the stage is how the other squaded ROs ran the stage as well. At a BIG match....consistency is key and set ROs is the way to go. You just hate to see when an errored call is made by the squad in front of you that the squad you are with sees as well...

My words to live by....."If there conscience can live with it then my conscience is clear as well". I will run a stage as the description says and hope my squad enjoys my company!!!

[thermobollocks]

I like having stationary ROs because that means I get to live like a king out of the back of my Subaru while everyone else has to hike all over the place.

[-=VILLAMOR=-]

Completely agree with Benelli Chick and Flatland Shooter.

For our Nordic Comp Tactical Shotgun Match which is not as big as the 3-Gun matches, we ran into the issue of having enough RO's to man all 14 stages. We had approximately 14 RO's, so what we did is a combination of a stage and travelling RO, and a schedule that allowed an open stage in between each squad. We assigned each RO a stage to be the SRO and to run it under the exact same rules for consistency. So if a squad is on Stage 1 and Stage 2 is open, the SRO in Stage 2 would be the assistant RO for Stage 1. When the squad is finished with Stage 1 and move onto Stage 2, the RO's changes roles. It worked for us, but like I said, it was a smaller match then the 3-gun matches.

Edited November 7, 2013 by -=VILLAMOR=-

[Jesse Tischauser]

I don't care what match club or major if you don't have a stationery RO somebody or some squad is going to shoot it different because of different RO's allow in or disallowing something.

[Outsydlooknin75]

I don't care what match club or major if you don't have a stationery RO somebody or some squad is going to shoot it different because of different RO's allow in or disallowing something.

Yup, people get mad at me sometimes because the stage brief says one thing specifically, port of arms.....I'm kinda specific of what port of arms is....but everyone is going to start the exact same.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[toothandnail]

I don't care what match club or major if you don't have a stationery RO somebody or some squad is going to shoot it different because of different RO's allow in or disallowing something.

Yup, people get mad at me sometimes because the stage brief says one thing specifically, port of arms.....I'm kinda specific of what port of arms is....but everyone is going to start the exact same.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Or as I've seen - Low Ready - anywhere from gun shouldered AIMING at the first target with finger on the trigger - To what I percive LR to mean, gun shouldered pointing down at close to a 45* angle. maybe I don't understand LR

[Jesse Tischauser]

I don't care what match club or major if you don't have a stationery RO somebody or some squad is going to shoot it different because of different RO's allow in or disallowing something.

Yup, people get mad at me sometimes because the stage brief says one thing specifically, port of arms.....I'm kinda specific of what port of arms is....but everyone is going to start the exact same.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Or as I've seen - Low Ready - anywhere from gun shouldered AIMING at the first target with finger on the trigger - To what I percive LR to mean, gun shouldered pointing down at close to a 45* angle. maybe I don't understand LR

Exactly! An RO that's paying attention while on the same stage keeps a close eye on that sorta thing. Once you start thinking that other shooters are shooting the stages differently it really changes your perspective of the match and it fairness.