scooter doc Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 If a competitor, at a sanctioned match, was to be dq'ed for firing three rounds past the 180.(all three impacted uprange). Can the range master (who was not present) overturn the call? dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) Are we speaking Range Master or Match Director? MD can do whatever he wants Edited August 31, 2013 by Sandbagger123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 "11.1.2 Access - Appeals may be submitted to arbitration in accordance withthe following rules for any matter except where specifically denied byanother rule. Appeals arising from a disqualification for a safety infractionwill only be accepted to determine whether exceptional circumstanceswarrant reconsideration of the match disqualification.However, the commission of the infraction as described by the RangeOfficial is not subject to challenge or appeal. Challenges to the constructionor layout of the course, safety, or shooting conditions may notbe submitted after the competitor attempts the course of fire. Should acourse of fire be changed after the competitor completes the stage, heis entitled to the process under appeals providing that no DQ hasoccurred." Here is the rule. How does that fit your scenario? Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSteel Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 3 rounds up range??? Is this really a discussion??? Was this a handgun malfunction?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooter doc Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 no malfunction. he missed an activater, activated it fifteen feet farther downrange, turned and shot the drop turner. over twenty shooters saw it. yes she was the rm. she wasted twenty minutes trying to convince the ro that he had not seen, what he saw. Then she overruled him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 bad juju that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSteel Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 So, you have 3 impact points and know where the competitor was standing?? Should be pretty cut and dry to me... Then again, I'm not and RO but I do value my own safety..... Personally, I think the RM was wrong to overrule the RO if facts presented are true.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 no malfunction. he missed an activater, activated it fifteen feet farther downrange, turned and shot the drop turner. over twenty shooters saw it. yes she was the rm. she wasted twenty minutes trying to convince the ro that he had not seen, what he saw. Then she overruled him. However, the commission of the infraction as described by the Range Official is not subject to challenge or appeal. The RM was wrong. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I read your second comment that the shooter was the RM? I would think that when the RM is shooting as a competitor they have no authority due to the conflict of interest. I have never RM'd for a RM or MD that overturned a safety based DQ. Nor do I think I would RO for them more than once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooter doc Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 sorry, no the range master was not the shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 the RO witness is not challengeable maybe the act wasnt a DQ... are you saying that its close enough that it might not have been 180 /? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Are we speaking Range Master or Match Director? MD can do whatever he wants this is not true... the md has no authority in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooter doc Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 this was a 190 violation, no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Shot broke the 180...3 times. Bunch of witnesses. RO called it. Right? My opinion is the shooter has no honor. That being said...I believe either the MD is completely unqualified or mentally challenged. When they overturned it did they even investigate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueorb Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I was on the squad behind the squad in which the shooter in question was shooting. There were, literally, 20 people standing around watching. Shooter broke the 180 with 3 shots. The RO immediately called a stop and DQ'd the shooter. The shooter then proceeded to protest. The RM was called, a 20+ (most likely more) minute debate was had, and the DQ was overturned. There was no doubt he broke the 180. Not sure how I would feel if I were the RO and had that call overturned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxriver6 Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I know how i would have reacted....SEE YOU LATER! Call me when you have a change in Command! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Yup..don't think I would RO again for that MD. Probably not squad with that shooter either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I'm going to point this out because it's important that people know the difference. Range Masters are in charge of the match after first shot and until last shot. Match Directors put the thing together, turn it over to the RM to run, and take it back as the match is finalized. Match Directors, MD's' have NO responsibility here what so ever, until it's time to put the arbitration committee together. Please discuss the right officials' responsibility when talking about a match such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 WTF? I have left matches for good for much less infractions. I personally feel that showing up at the next match would not only be dangerous, but bordering on suicidal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooter doc Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 aztec. It was the range master, who made the call. the md, was not present. I aproached the md about it later, and was blown off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fayetteflash Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Very sad to hear. I know the stage and exactly how it could have happened. Extra shame on that shooter for not taking their trip to Dairy Queen like a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 aztec. It was the range master, who made the call. the md, was not present. I aproached the md about it later, and was blown off. Well, I can't speak to the approach, but he didn't have much more to do about it unless someone is going to file an arbitration. Rm is the final authority at that point. Sorry to hear its a controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 aztec. It was the range master, who made the call. the md, was not present. I aproached the md about it later, and was blown off. Well, I can't speak to the approach, but he didn't have much more to do about it unless someone is going to file an arbitration. Rm is the final authority at that point. Sorry to hear its a controversy. Aztec, speaking to the MD is still a good idea -- while the MD has no authority in the current situation, he does have the ability to hire a different RM in the future.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 aztec. It was the range master, who made the call. the md, was not present. I aproached the md about it later, and was blown off.Well, I can't speak to the approach, but he didn't have much more to do about it unless someone is going to file an arbitration. Rm is the final authority at that point. Sorry to hear its a controversy. Aztec,speaking to the MD is still a good idea -- while the MD has no authority in the current situation, he does have the ability to hire a different RM in the future.... Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 RM...MD. Semantics. Bottom line is its unsafe...and who ever was in charge was not able, or refused to see it. It could have been Bobo the widget salesman..does not change the fact that a very dangerous act was condoned...and possibly encouraged. I would possibly contact NROI..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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