Insensitiving Volunteers

[millsusaf]

Despite having a good crowd of between 50-80 shooters each match we continue to have a difficult time getting volunteers to help setup. The volunteers we do get are typically the same ones over and over again. Obviously this can not continue or there will be no volunteers and we need to find a way to correct this issue.

We have discussed raising the match fees, breakfasts, dinners, maybe even a drawing for some cool prizes only available to volunteers, etc but have not really came up with a full proof solution.

How do you insensitive the people who come to shoot your matches? What are your match fees? Thanks, we have to figure out something otherwise I am afraid MG will die locally.

Edited August 1, 2013 by millsusaf

[prreed10]

A local club buys gun. For every match you work, your name gets put in a bucket. End of they year they draw names from the bucket.

[Sarge]

Not MG, but I let set up help and RO'S shoot matches for free

[millsusaf]

Not MG, but I let set up help and RO'S shoot matches for free

We do that now and I commonly hear "I would rather pay the fee than help". What are your match fees?

[wideerhunter]

I would first make it clear to the entire club that without additional help, the matches will be cancelled.

One of the local clubs gives away several guns each year. At the other clubs, thanks seems to be enough to get people to help.

How difficult is setup? Are you making people drag big ass poppers 100 yards? We have trailers setup and can just drive around dropping off everything at each stage. Do you have clear stage descriptions that you can hand out to volunteers? I hate showing up to help setup and standing around for an hour while the MD figures out how the stage should be layed out.

[kneelingatlas]

There is a difficult balance between incentivizing volunteers and discouraging paying shooters; everything costs money so everything you give away must come out of the pockets of the shooters. How much are your match fees now?

Maybe once a month I go to a match at one of two locations one entry is $17, the other is $35. I help out about the same at each, but the $35 match has more cool targets (Texas Stars, drop turners, etc.), larger stages and a higher round count; I would say I prefer the $35 match.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

I would first make it clear to the entire club that without additional help, the matches will be cancelled.

One of the local clubs gives away several guns each year. At the other clubs, thanks seems to be enough to get people to help.

How difficult is setup? Are you making people drag big ass poppers 100 yards? We have trailers setup and can just drive around dropping off everything at each stage. Do you have clear stage descriptions that you can hand out to volunteers? I hate showing up to help setup and standing around for an hour while the MD figures out how the stage should be layed out.

Depending on how far people have to drive for the match, this may not be possible......and if I'm driving over 2 hrs to a match (like I do on the third Saturday of every month) then get scolded for not leaving my house at 4am to set up....there are other matches on other weekends! I don't go to a match that is 35 minutes away anymore because of the rules and stage designs, and it's on the same weekend as the match that is over 2 hrs away.

In order to help, local matches typically need LOCAL shooters who are willing to help. You can't just make a blanket statement.

When it comes to match fees....if you are not making money off of putting the matches on, and just doing it out of the goodness of your heart....I admire your gift to the sport, but can see why you're getting burned out. I've been to matches that are almost all paper with $15 entree fees on insured ranges (not paying for additional insurance for the match) and there were 50 people there ($750) for a match shot from 11am to 2pm. I've been to matches with a lot of steel, very little paper, and distances out to 300 yards on an insured range for $25/person and 40+ people ($1000+) for a match shot between 10am to 3pm. I've also been to matches that cost $40 with 5 short bay stages under 100 yards, unsure if the range was insured or the match needed its own insurance, and there were nearly 40 people (~$1600) for a match shot between 9am to 3pm. At all but ONE of those matches, I've RO'd for squads...in exchange for a match fee. Personally, I don't mind RO'ing for the match, although I would tell you that I typically do not get to prepare for a stage like I do at a match where I am not the RO...I don't get to watch other shooters and how they shoot, I watch if they are breaking 180 or violating safety rules. I would gladly turn over RO'ing matches many times if there was a prize table and I was looking to do as well as I could!

Considering those fees and numbers of people....thats $200-267/hr to host a match run by volunteers, and the person/people putting the matches on are typically also shooting the match. Considering my last order of USPSA silhouettes were 61 cents/each paying full retail from Midway, and alot of the MD's at local matches use the range's steel, while getting VOLUNTEERS to help RO for the match. I have a hard time being sympathetic to someone saying they are going to cancel matches unless more volunteers step up to make them over $200/hr!

NOW.....if you are volunteering to MD 3-gun/USPSA matches for your club and your club is taking that money in to go towards maintenance and improvements at the club. YOU are making a big sacrifice to do that, and I can sympathize more with getting burned out on setting up matches without help. Locally here, at least for USPSA and IDPA (neither of which I shoot), in order to shoot the match you must be a member, and you must volunteer to help setup and even design stages a minimum number of times per year. Of course, this eliminates the participation of people who live far enough away that it becomes an impossibility to fulfill those requirements, and reduces the number of people willing to shoot your matches.

OP.....i don't know what situation you are coming from, but don't give up on it just yet! Before cancelling matches, perhaps giving control over the matches to someone else may be another way to go. I have my own private range and spend all of my own time setting up targets, cleaning up the range, ....and I got where I wanted to shoot alone because everyone wanted to show up late when everything had been set up, and leave earlier than when shooting was done...leaving me with cleanup every time. I finally started leaving things the same and practicing until they got there, then made them help set things up. When they mentioned they were about done, shooting stops and we pick things up. If I want to shoot more, we leave a limited number of targets out and I only have a little to pick up on my own afterwards. Noone seems to complain considering I'm the one who spent all the money on targets, target holders, various MGM items and specialty targets.....and they got to shoot them free with a little help.

[millsusaf]

I can't speak for other organizations but in ours the host clubs get all the money and any prizes are donated from sponsors. The host range also supplies all the targets (steel/paper), buckets, shot timers, paint, paisters, the insurance, etc. All of our host ranges have good props and I think we put on some very good challenging matches (at least that is the feedback we get). Match directors and staff get paid $0, zip, nadda, in fact I've ended up paying out of pocket for several things as well has several other MDs.

Each match director does things slightly differently but in general we are all pretty organized. Personally, for Sat. setup I have all the stages on paper and cut sheet of all the props we need broken down for quantity per stage. We essentially load up the trailer with the needed stuff and drive around with the trailer pulling off what we need per stage and set it up. IMO, it is a pretty organized and painless process. The last match we had 2 people show up to help who could stay the whole time with a third who had to leave after a couple of hours (still very helpful). Regardless of how organized it is, it's still a long day with only 3-4 people including myself. Another MD's match he only had one person show up to help setup.

Sponsors, RO, MD, and match crew volunteers get to shoot for free. Our match fee this year is $25.

I get that people are busy or drive from a decent distance but there are plenty who show to shoot and leave from no farther than I drive or closer.

So far I am liking a couple of suggestions. Raising the match fee some to pay for some volunteer only prizes I think is a good one. Even if we raise it $5 we could pay for some pretty awesome door volunteer only prizes. I hesitate to raise the match fee too much because we don't want to turn people away from MG but we can't keep abusing the few people who do volunteer for nothing more than $25 and a pat on the back.

[Chills1994]

millsusaf wrote:

Despite having a good crowd of between 50-80 shooters each match...

Plus this:

...Thanks, we have to figure out something otherwise I am afraid MG will die locally.

= does not compute

With 50 to 80 guys showing up regularly, your 3 gun "club" is in no danger of croaking locally.

I'd say jack the match entry fee up $10 and offer free match entry fees to anyone who helps set up, RO, and/or tear down. C'mon, man, think about it. You have guys mosey'ing around with between $5,000 and $10,000 worth of guns and ammo on their tactical baby joggers or on their belts. Ten bucks more " ain't " gonna kill 'em.

Your stage diagrams, IMO, need to get published to the web or via email beforehand.

[millsusaf]

millsusaf wrote:

Despite having a good crowd of between 50-80 shooters each match...

Plus this:

...Thanks, we have to figure out something otherwise I am afraid MG will die locally.

= does not compute

With 50 to 80 guys showing up regularly, your 3 gun "club" is in no danger of croaking locally.

It does when only 2-3 people help setup and it's the same people every time and they get fed up with it and stop helping. These matches to not magically happen on their own, it takes a lot of hard work to make them happen.

Your stage diagrams, IMO, need to get published to the web or via email beforehand.

I am curious, why? Do you think this would get people to come out and help setup?

[EaZeNuTZ33]

If you have 50-80 guys showing up.....your clubs matches are rocking! Good on you for setting it up and running without payment, that takes a lot of dedication!

I would review how much you are charging and charge based $10 increments. So going to $30, or going to $40 would be better IMO. I hate having to figure out that $5 in change, and when the 5's run out, shooters are making change between themselves. At a club, this may not be an issue.

I would also review complexity of the stages and the number of stages. If you are doing 5-6 stages and there is a lot of complexity....you may be trying to do too much for $25! If you are doing 3-4 stages and they are complex, still too much.

You can have high round count stages with simple to set, tape, and tear down stages. Use paper more, use knockdown steel more, use big heavy contraption targets less. OR charge more to run complex stages.

If there were a match within 2-5 hours that had big badass stages and it was $60 to shoot a 6 stage match, and there were 6 squads (regardless of squad size) and we had to tear down the stages we finished on......you bet I'd be there, and I would be trying to drag every shooter I could to that match. If there was a match 10 minutes away that was $20 and was all primarily paper, only 3 stages,.....I'd still go and drag people with me. The amount you charge needs to be relative to how the stages are going to be set up....just my opinion of course.

The match I rarely attend any more, was the only club match I attended. The stages weren't horrible and were typically more elaborate and challenging....which I liked! Occasionally tho, the stages were designed (or seemed) to be intentional DQ traps based around the range's rules that did not match USPSA or any other match in the area. Add that to a MD that liked to yell, not talk, to people if there were questions about the range's rules or if he saw something he didnt like. He never yelled at me directly, I never got DQ'd in one of their DQ traps, I just didn't care for how things were done. So I drive an extra 90+ minutes one way, and pay $5 more, to shoot a match on the same weekends.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

I'm not on board with published stages for local matches.....there is no reason to try to get people to sign up enough in advance for a monthly match to email stage descriptions or have to upload anything to a website. Show up, stage briefing, couple minutes to look things over, shoot the stage. There isn't anything but bragging rights on line at a local match after all.....3 weeks of strategizing over how to best work over a stage for a local match is a bit much.

Posting expected round counts on a website or at the clubhouse is always nice.....but best if the expected round counts stay close to the same and you only have to post it once. Something like "expect 75-150 pistol, 75-150 shotgun, and 75-150 rilfe...you may take a good amount home" would be perfectly acceptable in my eyes.

[Chills1994]

If people are driving 2 or more hours one way, they've already become invested with their gas money at your match. You don't have to post them up three weeks prior to the match. Just like the Wednesday before. And like the EazeNut guy said post a round count. Back when I was MD'ing USPSA pistol matches, I got tired of people asking for a round count, that my blanket statement was just assume each stage was a 32 round field course. with the current panic going on, finding reduced recoil slugs or buck might be even harder and take longer. So notice a little further out would be appreciated by your shooters. I had published some of my stages here on BE when making match announcements.

You need to get your shooter's emails and names into a database like mailchimp.

You need to start cultivating or grooming a new sucker...I mean volunteer... To become MD next year.

There is this management theory called the "primack principle" or the 90/10 rule. 10% of the people are doing 90% of the work. If you are getting 50 to 80 shooters regularly and you're only getting 3 helpers, you're not even realizing the primack principle numbers.

Sounds like you're burnt out. I'd announce that this your last match/season as MD. If somebody steps up, good. If not, then whoopity-doo. Sometimes it takes for something to be completely gone for people to realize how good they had it.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

There is this management theory called the "primack principle" or the 90/10 rule. 10% of the people are doing 90% of the work. If you are getting 50 to 80 shooters regularly and you're only getting 3 helpers, you're not even realizing the primack principle numbers.

Sounds like you're burnt out. I'd announce that this your last match/season as MD. If somebody steps up, good. If not, then whoopity-doo. Sometimes it takes for something to be completely gone for people to realize how good they had it.

The hardest part about that.....I just started shooting 3-gun in March of 2012. If the match died before that, someone like me wouldn't have ever gotten into the sport, and new blood is what makes the sport bigger and keeps it going in the long run!

Tear down of stages is simple enough....competitors who finish on a given stage, tear down that stage and bring everything to the front and help load it on the trailer before leaving.

As for slugs and buck, and round counts....just like you said about 32 rounds on every stage....tell people what to plan as a max round count. It may not always be used, and you get to keep the ammo you didn't shoot!

[joelogic]

"I would rather pay the fee than help".

Its not that I would rather not help its just too much to help out. I would have to drive 1 hour each way and work for 4ish hours just to get to shoot the match for free. Our fee is $20. I would gladly pay 50-100% more in order to pay someone to setup. For anyone that complains about the increase offer them the opportunity to setup a stage.

[mpeltier]

Here's an idea. Next time hardly anybody shows up to help set up, put out one target in each bay with two shooting boxes. Get everybody together and explain that without help and co-operation this is what the stages will be like. I bet more than 3 people will step up to do more with that put before them. I have never had 5 stages take us more than an hour to set up when we have 2 guys per stage doing it. Often it takes much less time than an hour. We more often than not have more than that helping and we average 30-60 shooters per rifle match.

Edited August 2, 2013 by mpeltier

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Here's an idea. Next time hardly anybody shows up to help set up, put out one target in each bay with two shooting boxes. Get everybody together and explain that without help and co-operation this is what the stages will be like. I bet more than 3 people will step up to do more with that put before them. I have never had 5 stages take us more than an hour to set up when we have 2 guys per stage doing it. Often it takes much less time than an hour. We more often than not have more than that helping and we average 30-60 shooters per rifle match.

This may work ok for the people driving 20-30 minutes and could help......but if I drove 5+ hours like I do for the Gateway 3-Gun matches, only to show up and pay then watch the local guys get a lesson about charity, I wouldn't be back and would be voicing my opinion on the matter.

I know we all jump to the "that'll show them" conclusion, but unless everyone showing up is local and from the surrounding towns.......not a good move for the club or future matches IMO

[mpeltier]

Here's an idea. Next time hardly anybody shows up to help set up, put out one target in each bay with two shooting boxes. Get everybody together and explain that without help and co-operation this is what the stages will be like. I bet more than 3 people will step up to do more with that put before them. I have never had 5 stages take us more than an hour to set up when we have 2 guys per stage doing it. Often it takes much less time than an hour. We more often than not have more than that helping and we average 30-60 shooters per rifle match.

This may work ok for the people driving 20-30 minutes and could help......but if I drove 5+ hours like I do for the Gateway 3-Gun matches, only to show up and pay then watch the local guys get a lesson about charity, I wouldn't be back and would be voicing my opinion on the matter.

I know we all jump to the "that'll show them" conclusion, but unless everyone showing up is local and from the surrounding towns.......not a good move for the club or future matches IMO

Never mind Edited August 3, 2013 by mpeltier

[Religious Shooter]

In Southern Kalipornia there are two three gun matches I go to. One is a for profit organization. The other is the normal club-based non-profit organization. Each one charges a $40 match fee for non-members. $30 for members.

The non-profit club gives a percentage of the gate to the stage setters. Typically the stage setters get to shoot the match for "free" and get about $100-$150 for setting up a stage.

The for profit org they sometimes hire a day laborer or two for set-up. I don't know if they currently do this. They also let the shooters set up the stage and they get to shoot the match for "free."

But oftentimes than not, the individuals that set up are doing it because they just want to and enjoy helping. One or more help because they know the match would "suck" otherwise.

There's a third club that charges less ($30?) and the two guys that do most of the work are just the type of guys that like to help, etc.

All of these clubs require the last squad on a stage to tear it down, pick up the brass and gather the hulls. You can try that at your club to help take away some of the burden from your core setters.

If you have 50-80 shooters I'm sure some of them are the like to help type. Maybe you just aren't effectively asking for help or making it easy for them to help?

[Craig N]

The 2 clubs I shoot at basically the same for USPSA, IDA, SASS, and 3 Gun. There is a core group who sets up the stages and runs the matches, Everyone takes down the last stage you shoot and loads it into the pickups. Club Members is $10 Non Member is $15. I have helped set up a time or 2 when I got there early but most times they set up during the week. 3 Gun is after USPSA so it's more an adjustment to what is already set up.

[Zoomy]

I used to show up an hour early at one of the public ranges I used to shoot at and help set up. Did this 3 weeks in a row and still had to pay the full match fee. Never even got a thank you.

At the two Arizona ranges that I shoot in winter they have a policy that if you help set up fees are waived.

I still help out if I can if set up is still in progress when I arrive and I always help take down.

Maybe make a special after hours practice sessions for those who help set up. Up hereonly the Ro's with keys get to practice outside of schedued matches.

[Craig N]

I used to show up an hour early at one of the public ranges I used to shoot at and help set up. Did this 3 weeks in a row and still had to pay the full match fee. Never even got a thank you.

At the two Arizona ranges that I shoot in winter they have a policy that if you help set up fees are waived.

I still help out if I can if set up is still in progress when I arrive and I always help take down.

Maybe make a special after hours practice sessions for those who help set up. Up hereonly the Ro's with keys get to practice outside of schedued matches.

I'd say you'd catch hell for shooting through Friday evening before the saturday match but if your a member of the club there isn't really anything they can do to stop you from going in the range and air gunning the night before. I'd say quite a few do that.

[Zoomy]

I used to show up an hour early at one of the public ranges I used to shoot at and help set up. Did this 3 weeks in a row and still had to pay the full match fee. Never even got a thank you.

At the two Arizona ranges that I shoot in winter they have a policy that if you help set up fees are waived.

I still help out if I can if set up is still in progress when I arrive and I always help take down.

Maybe make a special after hours practice sessions for those who help set up. Up hereonly the Ro's with keys get to practice outside of schedued matches.

I'd say you'd catch hell for shooting through Friday evening before the saturday match but if your a member of the club there isn't really anything they can do to stop you from going in the range and air gunning the night before. I'd say quite a few do that.

I should have been more specific in what I meant about practice sessions. I meant to say that there should be an after hours opportunity to go to the range and set up our own stages to practice on. Not practice on the match stages ahead of time

[Jesse Tischauser]

We give out autographed pictures of Kalani Laker and Rustin Bernskoetter.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

We give out autographed pictures of Kalani Laker and Rustin Bernskoetter.

I figured it would be autographed pics of you in your guy-liner from Facebook!