Hot brass and stoppage?

[Poppa Bear]

I had some splatter come back and cut through my shirt and make a 2" gash just above my belt. Burnt and hurt like a SOB but I finished the stage. Some people can fight through it, some cannot. It is not a reason to give those who can't a free pass.

[Nik Habicht]

Depends on where it is. If it's a potential threat to their vision, i.e. jammed behind their glasses -- that's a definite stop, everytime....

I don't see that differently from having to stop a shooter if their glasses become dislodged....

[lugnut]

If woman shooter had a hot brass go into the front of her shirt and said she needed to stop I'd understand and be inclined to give a reshoot.

Why? Because she's a woman? My nipples are sensitive too!

I'd give you a reshoot too if you wanted one.

[lugnut]

Depends on where it is. If it's a potential threat to their vision, i.e. jammed behind their glasses -- that's a definite stop, everytime....

I don't see that differently from having to stop a shooter if their glasses become dislodged....

I think this is where I'm at for sure.... at least. I've been shooting for a long time and this doesn't happen often at all. The point is I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do with the kid. I think it really bothered him... I'm sure he'll live but he was visually upset.

Edited July 16, 2013 by lugnut

[sperman]

I had some splatter come back and cut through my shirt and make a 2" gash just above my belt. Burnt and hurt like a SOB but I finished the stage. Some people can fight through it, some cannot. It is not a reason to give those who can't a free pass.

http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi3153002521/

[Chris iliff]

Point is, ......... Tripping, falling, wet grass, rocks, sticks, WOULD BE SELF INDUCED IF THEY CAUSED A PROBLEM. Additionally, every single competitor is subject to the exact same conditions, so playing field is level.

I think hot brass in the glasses or Bees in the shirt are random enough that these obstacles would not be presented equally across all shooters.

Soooo, after some deliberation, and remembering that safety is my main concern, I'm going to yell STOP! This is a pure judgement call, and I don't need a rule to cite. My rule would be I thought the situation was unsafe. Period. Sue me.

RESHOOT, if I am ROing.

[Poppa Bear]

I will say it is a judgement call from the RO. My interactions with hot brass had them taken care of before the RO could react. My interactions with splatter were not known to the RO's until the stage was done.

I come across a situation as an RO that disrupts the shooter and I see some form of an injury, then I will stop them and if needed give them a reshoot. If they stop themselves it is a different story. If I do not see an obvious injury I am likely to score it as shot.

[remoandiris]

I think hot brass in the glasses or Bees in the shirt are random enough that these obstacles would not be presented equally across all shooters.

RESHOOT, if I am ROing.

And since this is your opinion, unless you are ROing every shooter on every stage, that decision would also not be presented equally across all shooters.

[bill o]

It's always tough as the RO to make a call during an unexpected situation like this.

In retrospect, if I were the RO and saw a small child visibly upset from repeated burns from hot cases, I'd stop him and offer a reshoot. If anyone got all range lawyery, I'd attempt to have the stage thrown out per 1.1.1.

I shot this stage with the kneeling prop and got my knees burned by about 1 of every 3 cases. It sucked, but I'm a grown man and can deal with it. An 11 year old boy cannot.

[kneelingatlas]

but I'm a grown man and can deal with it. An 11 year old boy cannot.

I was shooting Junior Olympic Rapid Fire Pistol as a pre-teen and got burned by brass during a match on more than one occasion; kids are plenty tough as compeditors.

[SLM]

Coming from an optical background, hot brass behind glasses is a safety issue. I'd be ripping my glasses off to get that hot bastard away from my eyes. You want to take a chance on burning and scaring your cornea, knock yourself out. Eyes aren't like the rest of the body where a scar really isn't going to affect much. Scar your cornea over your pupil and I'll almost guarantee you'll never see worth a damn out of that eye again.

[lugnut]

Coming from an optical background, hot brass behind glasses is a safety issue. I'd be ripping my glasses off to get that hot bastard away from my eyes. You want to take a chance on burning and scaring your cornea, knock yourself out. Eyes aren't like the rest of the body where a scar really isn't going to affect much. Scar your cornea over your pupil and I'll almost guarantee you'll never see worth a damn out of that eye again.

Yeah. 100% agree with you. This is USPSA.. not a tough guy competition.

[BSeevers]

I think your eye getting burnt is pretty serious. Now I did RO a shooter who threw his gun on the ground after hot brass landed on the web of his hand. That guy is no longer shooting and probably should not be shooting competition in the first place.

[kevin c]

I am not convinced that there is serious injury potential here under most circumstances, unless we are talking about unsafe gunhandling while dealing with the brass.

I have taken hot brass into my shirt on multiple occasions. I have had burns to my face from brass lodged behind my glasses (which is why I almost always shoot with a brimmed hat now). Not once did I think that I needed to stop, since I shook off the minor discomfort, and kept the muzzle down range at all times. The burns were never serious: usually nothing more than a red mark that was gone by the next stage - only once did I lose some skin. I am pretty sure the RO was thinking the same as I was each time: "Ouch, that's hot, gotta keep going...".

I've also seen women take the brass down the shirt front (come on, nobody buttons all the way up), and they kept the muzzle down range and kept on shooting.

If I were RO'ing? I'd assume the shooter will deal with this as with any other minor problem, because usually that's all it is. Scrapes and cuts from falls or from back spatter off steel don't stop most folks and I don't think that this would either (AAMOF, a friend of mine cut his hand open on a multistring classifier yesterday when the slide bit him bad. He finished the remaining strings). If there is a safety infraction for lack of muzzle control, well that's a DQ. If I really think that the shooter's dancing around is leading up to a muzzle issue, I might stop him and issue a reshoot, but that's a concern for the crowd, not the shooter, and I don't think I'd do it automatically in all cases.

Again, a hat does wonders to protect against brass behind eye protection. Even if it gets there, reflexive blinking and other responses on the shooter's part are going to be so fast that I doubt that I'd be able it issue a stop even if I thought it necessary. If by some remote chance there is an eye injury, I suspect the shooter is going to stop himself.

Edited July 17, 2013 by kevin c

[Chris iliff]

I think hot brass in the glasses or Bees in the shirt are random enough that these obstacles would not be presented equally across all shooters.

RESHOOT, if I am ROing.

And since this is your opinion, unless you are ROing every shooter on every stage, that decision would also not be presented equally across all shooters.

As an RO, every decision I make comes down to safety. Period. Of course, you are correct in what you state. In fact, it is so obvious it doesn't need to be stated. RO's are different, some are gonna make the call, some are not. As with any number of different scenarios, no amount of "rule" will bring parity. That is impossible. But, I trust that what does brings parity and balance is the very differences between us. I trust that there is enough difference that we will obtain a balance over the long haul.

[remoandiris]

I trust that what does brings parity and balance is the very differences between us. I trust that there is enough difference that we will obtain a balance over the long haul.

Sounds like something Obi Wan or Yoda would say!

[EkuJustice]

With the brass in the glasses I say give a reshoot as its a safety issue. If I have a piece of brass by my eye I am clearing it as quick as possible as a burn on the eye is not a good thing. If it involves the glasses being dislodged they get dislodged.