thegunnerd Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I was doing some tinkering with my AR loads and was cursing the constraints of magazines in terms of bullet seat depth and overall length . On a whole i've encountered the COAL of 2.250" to be the max with a little bit of wiggle room with most of the mags i had previously owned ( gi and magpul ) Any more and you can encounter one that varies too much and have problems feeding. Lately i've accumulated a bunch more mags during the insanity of '012/'013 . My new favorites are the Lancer A5 and the Troy battle mags. I haven't measured them individually yet but it got me thinking .....do any of the commercially available magazines that us 3 gunners like to use allow for a longer bullet seating depth . I know with some of the snazzy barrels we have , a slightly longer COAL may increase accuracy for long range rounds. This is more for the longer range , heavier rounds. Not the 55gr hoser rounds where the slight increase in accuracy wouldn't likely make any difference that close in. Right now my long range recipe is : 69 gr nosler hpbt 25.5 gr Win748 COAL 2.250" Federal Small Rifle Primers chrono's around 2650 fps out of an 18 " 1 in 10 223 wylde 5r barrel Anyone have any other interesting info? Aaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLG8R Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 The steel HK mags I believe allow for a longer OAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APL-G35 Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Why is everyone obsessed with a long "pet" round for 3 gun? I'm sure they are a fraction more accurate but is it worth the hassle? Can you hold precise enough under time constraints that it matters? I think the time spent fiddling with this would be more productive in training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I like the old Colt factory 20rd aluminum mags with the short feed lips and aluminum follower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegunnerd Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 Why is everyone obsessed with a long "pet" round for 3 gun? I'm sure they are a fraction more accurate but is it worth the hassle? Can you hold precise enough under time constraints that it matters? I think the time spent fiddling with this would be more productive in training I don't know about you , but i obsess over accuracy AND I train. They aren't mutually exclusive . I do a lot of precision loading for .308 and it got me thinking about loading for my ar for 3 gun . Being that there are some ( albeit rare ) matches where you shoot out to 500+ yards that extra bit of accuracy may be the difference between a hit or a miss. I know for a fact when i load for my bolt gun , loading past the magazine restrictions ( aics mag ) for one shot , the accuracy increases . That is for my particular barrel and a lot of other bolt guns and precision guns i know of . The " hassle " is as much as changing the bullet seating depth ......not super complicated if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springy Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Why is everyone obsessed with a long "pet" round for 3 gun? I'm sure they are a fraction more accurate but is it worth the hassle? Can you hold precise enough under time constraints that it matters? I think the time spent fiddling with this would be more productive in training the 55 moves around a lot more in the wind than a 69-77gr the 55 is $70 per k, 69-77 is 200 per k at 350 yds the 55 just barely moves the flash, the 69-77 a lot better chance to see the flash move the 55 coefficient is much less than 69-77 which makes them much more accurate at 300+ when a match costs 1000+ for total expenses, I want the cheapest ammo I can get to hit at 15 yards, and I want instant confirmation that I hit the 375yd flash both .085 and .872 are fractions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegunnerd Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 Why is everyone obsessed with a long "pet" round for 3 gun? I'm sure they are a fraction more accurate but is it worth the hassle? Can you hold precise enough under time constraints that it matters? I think the time spent fiddling with this would be more productive in training the 55 moves around a lot more in the wind than a 69-77gr the 55 is $70 per k, 69-77 is 200 per k at 350 yds the 55 just barely moves the flash, the 69-77 a lot better chance to see the flash move the 55 coefficient is much less than 69-77 which makes them much more accurate at 300+ when a match costs 1000+ for total expenses, I want the cheapest ammo I can get to hit at 15 yards, and I want instant confirmation that I hit the 375yd flash both .085 and .872 are fractions +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Another vote for the steel HK mags to allow maximum oal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomfab Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 With CProducts 40rd round mags I can run out to 2.27" reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegunnerd Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 With CProducts 40rd round mags I can run out to 2.27" reliably. Very interesting ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesY Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 With CProducts 40rd round mags I can run out to 2.27" reliably. +1. For my 75 gr loads, I use C Prod 40rd mags to maximize my OAL. They won't even fit in my Pmags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegunnerd Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 With CProducts 40rd round mags I can run out to 2.27" reliably. +1. For my 75 gr loads, I use C Prod 40rd mags to maximize my OAL. They won't even fit in my Pmags. Very cool , i'm gonna have to check em out. I have a few c products mags for other rifles , but i've not bought any for ar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Years ago, there was an outfit that made/modified mags to take an 80 grain loading for Highpower. I think the mag held about 5 rounds, and on an angle in the mag. You're better off to use 75/77 grain bullets loaded to 2.25 as they were designed to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegunnerd Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 For now i'm going to stick with the 69 gr nosler ( being that i have 300 of em left to press ) But i do like the sierra 75 gr a lot as well. With the length and twist rate of my barrel a 75 will do very very well. But , that .01 may give me that reduction in bullet jump to take the gun into another level of accuracy . I've seen that happen with far less then .01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Why is everyone obsessed with a long "pet" round for 3 gun? I'm sure they are a fraction more accurate but is it worth the hassle? Can you hold precise enough under time constraints that it matters? I think the time spent fiddling with this would be more productive in trainingI can hit a lot more accurately at distance with my 77 grain Sierra match loads especially in the wind than my 55 grain Hornady FMJ load. By distance I mean 300 plus. Also it does not take that much time after you have developed the load. So you can do both have a good load and train. A 3/4 moa load will be more forgiving of your shooter wobble zone than a 2 moa load. Pat Edited June 17, 2013 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegunnerd Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 Why is everyone obsessed with a long "pet" round for 3 gun? I'm sure they are a fraction more accurate but is it worth the hassle? Can you hold precise enough under time constraints that it matters? I think the time spent fiddling with this would be more productive in trainingI can hit a lot more accurately at distance with my 77 grain Sierra match loads especially in the wind than my 55 grain Hornady FMJ load. By distance I mean 300 plus. Also it does not take that much time after you have developed the load. So you can do both have a good load and train. A 3/4 moa load will be more forgiving of your shooter wobble zone than a 2 moa load.Pat Precisely^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegunnerd Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 Seems that the C products are hard to find and were discontinued seemingly quickly after announcing and selling them . I wonder why.....i guess 3 gunners didn't catch onto it fast enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomfab Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Seems that the C products are hard to find and were discontinued seemingly quickly after announcing and selling them . I wonder why.....i guess 3 gunners didn't catch onto it fast enough. Those in the know have piles of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loneranger04 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Having an accurate load for the long range part of 3gun is more about increasing my confidence as any thing else. I can shoot that stage faster if i believe that the bullet is going to hit where im aiming. Nothing blows a stage faster than moving the dot around because your not hitting the plate when you think you should be. I'm using 69 gr Nosler custom comp. and would like to seat them out farther however seating them deep enough to fit my mag seems to work fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Are the 40rd AR Stoner mags from Midway, which are made for them by ACS, using the old C Products tooling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegunnerd Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 Interesting , i have no idea. that would cool though. If only those 40 rd new magpul ones allowed for long oal . Either way they'll be big in the 3 gun game very very soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I know a little bit about this.... The stainless steel and steel mags use thinner wall material which allows for more room inside. The most room you're going to get though will prob come from the Cammenga brand mags due to their design. Since they have a front half and rear half, there is no welded seam in the front and rear. The problem you may run into though will be feeding. You may have to lower your feed ramps. If you do buy some Cammengas, make sure you polish the inside of the feed lips due to the finish. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegunnerd Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 I know a little bit about this.... The stainless steel and steel mags use thinner wall material which allows for more room inside. The most room you're going to get though will prob come from the Cammenga brand mags due to their design. Since they have a front half and rear half, there is no welded seam in the front and rear. The problem you may run into though will be feeding. You may have to lower your feed ramps. If you do buy some Cammengas, make sure you polish the inside of the feed lips due to the finish. Nick That doesn't seem worth it for a modicum of accuracy . Reliability can't suffer. I'll check em out though nick .i don't like the lowering of my feed ramp idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Cabelas still shows mags in stock for $15 They are worth a try. The feeding will most likely depend on your lower/upper dimensions. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegunnerd Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Thanks nick i'll check em out . Got any 1-6x razor hd II's laying around ? I could use one on this here 3 gun ar. My burris mtac 1.5-6 isn't doing the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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