Open Gun Rocket Comp Idea

[RocketCity1911]

I was considering a comp design that would put the recoil impulse straight back into my hands -- another attempt at the holy grail of no dot movement. I don't know what this would do or feel like, but might be interesting to machine a screw-on comp version and see what happens.

Anybody ever heard of someone doing this? I keep imagining the early days of rocketry when the launches went unstable

[partyboy424]

You're basically looking for the gun to shoot like a shouldered rifle. I don't see how it would ever be possible as long as there is an axis created by your two hand grip being lower than the barrel. There's simply too much leverage.

Now, if you could invent a semiauto that cycled within the length of a slide (like an AR15) then you could figure out how to move your hand grip up. But, the gun would be huge and probably beat the hell out of you at Major PF.

[open17]

What you are describing exists, at least for rifles. Levang muzzle thingy. ( I hesitate to

call it either brake or comp.) Buy one and mod it to fit your app--they are cheap.

[RocketCity1911]

Couple of thoughts....

The nozzle comp could be combined with a hybri-comp barrel with some holes in it to help with muzzle flip.

The nozzle could be made with the axis angled to create a force vector to counter muzzle flip. Probably require a lot of trial and error.

Appreciate the info on the Levang. Will have to research that one.

Edited June 7, 2013 by RocketCity1911

[rishii]

I had a levang on a ar

Other than adding a little weight to the muzzle and lightening my wallet, it wasn't any better than a A2 flash hider

Your design looks different, but to play devils advocate here, how is it any different from a gun not having a comp at all

It appears to direct all the muzzle blast out the front of the comp, which in my option might increase muzzle rise

[mpolans]

Directing the force straight back with nothing to drive down the barrel isn't going to do anything since the gun will still pivot upward at your wrist. Recoil will be bad and it would likely make muzzle flip worse.

[kneelingatlas]

No baffles? I've seen muzzle devices with no top ports, just front ones around the muzzle. They don't do much for muzzle flip, but the counter straight back recoil.

[eric nielsen]

If you can build it in your garage, why not. I think if you compare it to a standard comp with 4,5, or 6 expansion chambers, you'll be very disappointed, and I would not pay someone significant $$ to build it for your. You may break stuff in just a few rounds, like your slide stop or barrel link or lower lugs. Just a guess. Might want to start out with an 18 or 22 pound recoil spring. I've been known to try stuff & then go in a different direction, more than once.

[RocketCity1911]

I found this video on YouTube comparing the Levang with no comp and another comp:

From the video, it seems like the Levang does make a difference in muzzle flip for a short barrel rifle especially when compared with no comp.

The nozzle design provides max thrust when the gas converges and then diverges after passing through the throat. For 9mm/38 Super, the throat diameter has to be .368". So, it might be difficult to get much of a convergence going from the barrel to the throat. The Levang does have a baffle with holes on the exit which might help make up for the limited convergence.

Well, it's just an idea and I threw it out here to see the pro's and con's. Appreciate the responses;)

[OpenDot]

point it back at the shooter... it's not a rifle and it's not a .50 cal brake either..... 38 super comp force coming back at your face?

Good thing eye and ear protection is needed in the sport...

might as well use this

[BlueOvalBruin]

I think if this type of comp would have any effect the effect would be additional recoil.

[Guy Neill]

I remember wondering about how a converging - diverging nozzle design would work way back when, but I never built one, and don't know if anyone else did.

However, also way back when, some that used the 9x25 were reporting negative muzzle flip. I don't know the specific comp design, but it was not, to my knowledge, anything exotic. Simply a 2 or 3 baffle design, I think.

Guy

[RocketCity1911]

Could add a baffle and a port...

The trade off is felt recoil vs muzzle flip. A lot of factors play into that trade -- load your shooting, comp design, and grip/shooting skill. I have shot open guns that slapped your hands really hard and some that were much easier on the hands. It seemed to me like the harder the slap, the less the dot moved. Maybe that is just a perception due to the gun reacting quicker than I am able to observe the dot moving up and down. If so, maybe the rocket nozzle concept will improve that perception.

[frag316]

I think you'd want to drill ports angled forward in the comp to counteract the muzzle flip.

Your design looks superficially similar to the Noveske flash suppressor. I've never seen or fired one, but you might want to see if you can find someone who has one for you to look at.

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=kx3556p&cat=141&page=1&search=&since=&status=&title=

I've toyed with the idea of a gun where the bore axis would be directly inline with the shooter's index finger. The only thing I've been able to determine so far is that the gun would have to be fed from somewhere other than the grip to do it reliably. The linkage between the trigger and the sear would probably be overly complicated as well, without benefit of a good feel for reset--but I'm not a gun designer and don't play one on TV.

[Powder Finger]

When you get rid of all flip you still have the energy.

The more you shoot that setup the less you will like it.

[kneelingatlas]

I've toyed with the idea of a gun where the bore axis would be directly inline with the shooter's index finger.

Do you mean like this?:

I used to shoot Olympic Rapid Fire with a pistol just like this one.

[frag316]

Yeah, more or less. I've not looked closely at one yet, so I don't know the mechanics. I wonder how difficult it would be to beef that up to take a .38 Super or 9Major cartridge.

It would be really muzzle heavy, tho, because the magazine would be in front of the trigger guard.

[kneelingatlas]

I have pondered the same thing, but since that's a single stack .22 short with a five round mag, it might be a stretch...

It is however ported and flat as hell!!! Maybe I'll use a barney mag and break it out for a steel match someday...

[GuildSF4]

When you get rid of all flip you still have the energy.

The more you shoot that setup the less you will like it.

This is true, I had 2 9x25's, (115 grain bullet at over 1800 fps, lots of gas with H108) the muzzle flip was essentially zero, (the dot made a small circle still in the a zone at 10 to 15 yds), recoil and muzzle blast were brutal and would beat you up over time. (You could tell when someone was shooting a 9x25 3 bays away.)

The load had to be tuned to the gun and comp to get the muzzle flip to be zero, and with too much gas the muzzle would move down as Guy said.

[Mike Bell]

is this on a 1911 with a barrel bushing? I may have an unfinished bushing comp with no ports in my unfinished project/junk box....PM if you want it

[RocketCity1911]

is this on a 1911 with a barrel bushing? I may have an unfinished bushing comp with no ports in my unfinished project/junk box....PM if you want it

Appreciate the offer. I would be using a threaded bull barrel (probably a Schuemann). A buddy of mine has a lathe and end mill. May just play around and see what happens. Probably be a few months since I just sent in a certificate to STI for a slide and haven't ordered the barrel yet. Most likely I'll use a more conventional comp, but might be interesting to see what the Rocket Comp would do.