BDH Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I've got a stage design that I've been working on that would force the shooter to pick up a 'prop' in the middle of the stage, and carry it through the end of the stage. Carrying this prop would force most people to shoot stronghand only, but I tried it, and I can get into a freestyle grip (although, it puts both my arms into a weird shooting position). I'm not worried about forcing people to shoot stronghand only, or with a weird grip, but since everyone would end up having to do at least one reload (and revolvers would have to do several), I don't want someone putting out a contract on me for designing a stage that would require a tough reload (or reloads) because of the prop involved. I am not going to tell you what the prop is, but will tell you that you will not be able to put it in your mouth, pocket, etc., as it is too large, and it does not have a handle. What do you think? Afterall, everyone shoots within their own Division, so everyone deals with the same challenge....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 What's the penalty for not carrying it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I imagine as long as it's not a squirrel, you'll still be loved. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I have video of me carrying that thing in the pouring rain.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Is it just a goofy gimmick or does the prop add value and meaning to the shooting test? Does the addition of the prop compromise safety? Does the prop place an undue burden on any particular group of shooters, i.e. juniors, people of small stature? In other words, does the prop enhance the shooting test or does the prop make it a test of physical agility? After considering the answers to those questions, you should find it easy to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 bdh, it's been done before... put the stage on and run it. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 MASC Stage 1 Lot's of fun. You had to carry a .50 ammo can to the second shooting position and fire shots along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdt Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I agree with Ron. Most of the props are a stage designers idea of humor and do nothing for the actual shooting contest. I still have nightmares from my CAS days of riding a stick horse while shouting a mandatory cowboylike slogan. That's what drew me to IPSC was the seriousness of the shooting. Not the cheesy gimmmicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Sounds like the 'bomb' stage at Nats a couple years ago. Not very friendly for lefties either-- the dump spot wasn't very easy to get to non-sweepingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted September 23, 2004 Author Share Posted September 23, 2004 Okay, as usual, good feedback. Ron, you certainly gave me some things to 'think' about. One answer I will give is that this is certainly something that a junior could carry, and if you have a junior shooter in your house, you also have the prop I am thinking of! The deal here is that the prop is thematically related to the stage, and as for doing something for the shooting contest..... well, let's just say that 1) I think most would shoot stronghand (since I can not define stronghand in a field course, the prop pretty much forces it); and 2) everyone shoots the same COF..... The only thing that I am 'potentially' concerned about, would be someone trying to juggle a prop, while doing a reload. It certainly would not be the first time that has happened, but I don't know if I want to force it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 What is the penalty for not carrying it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted September 23, 2004 Author Share Posted September 23, 2004 What is the penalty for not carrying it??? Sorry Pat, you asked that before.... One Procedural per shot fired..... (I know, I know.... but I want to force the stronghand).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 The only thing that I am 'potentially' concerned about, would be someone trying to juggle a prop, while doing a reload. It certainly would not be the first time that has happened, but I don't know if I want to force it..... From a safety stand point I'd consider inserting wording to allow the shooter to set the prop down to reload. At the MASC --- see stage above ---- the shooter had the option of setting the can down and shooting ---- but was not allowed to use his hands to help activate the device that covered/uncovered two ports --- so most shooters carried it anyway, shooting targets on the way stronghand only. This issue can also be addressed with the proper use of vision barriers --- who's gonna want to set down and pick up the prop three or four times? I see lots of options for you ---- unless you really want to force the shooter to shoot a whole field course strong hand only..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Every one has to do it, Just shoot it! Ivan SCS Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Since you asked I don't mind props, they are very useful when a designer wants to force one-handed shooting. Please please please DO NOT force a reload with a prop - keep the required rounds fired to 10 with it in your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Please please please DO NOT force a reload with a prop - keep the required rounds fired to 10 with it in your hand. What about revolver shooters? And the occational person who shoots a P7M8???? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 oops - I only considered L10 Thanks Kev! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I've had to shoot stages carrying a big ass heavy dummy...... no,,,,that's not counting me as the dummy. Basically, it was a carry the hostage to safety scenario....The dummy was relatively heavy,,,,50,,,,75 lbs or so. The broader sholdered folks among us just threw it on our sholder and and went flying down range. Let's see H4444 = 310 lbs,,,,75 lbs hostage,,,,,,10 lbs of uspsa gear,,,,,that was damn near 400 lbs of kneecaps, elbows, and lead flying downrange. YEEE HAAWWW,,,,,,might have to drag that dummy out again sometime....... H4444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Heck, go for it. I had visions of a scenario like h4444 is talking about, a 14 year old junior girl dragging a dummy that weighed as much as she does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I would consider it "evil." But that shouldn't stop you from doing it with an evil grin....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I had a similar stage as BDH describes at our last shoot. The prop was a suitcase and weighed ±5kg. Start with prop carried in strong hand and engage targets AOFS, 32 rounds with many PT's and targets underneath/behind/on top of hard cover over an area of 20x30m....and it was FUN. We did allow putting down the prop for reloads/jams/etc, but if you wanna pull the trigger the case had to be in your HANDS or HAND... So, go for it and have FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I don't like carrying props or some of the weird start positions. If you want someone to shoot strong hand or week hand come up with a new creative standards (if there is such a thing). I'm not referring to you Brian, but on the local level most of the time when a carry props is added to a stage it's because a person did not want to put the extra effort into stage design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted September 24, 2004 Author Share Posted September 24, 2004 I you want someone to shoot strong hand or week hand come up with a new creative standards (if there is such a thing). How about the 2003 FGN, and the drycleaning stage where you had to slide the hanger (or trolley or whatever it was) through most of the stage? The stage complied with 1.1.5, but basically forced you to shoot stronghand..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 I only got to see that stage a year later when it came out on TV. I guess that was more creative than most but didn't look to be very fun. When I saw that I thought poor BJ, he must have worn stilks. Or have rode it all the way to the end like Tarzan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted September 24, 2004 Author Share Posted September 24, 2004 Jon, I fully agree that all shooters must have the same challenge, so while I did not see BJ on the stage, he could have been disadvantaged by stage design. I assure you, that what I am considering will give the same challenge to TGO and BJ.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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