Forgetful Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) I just started reloading 223 on my dillon and am having issues with velocity and accuracy. No issues loading 9 and 40 ammo though velocity is within 15 fps for a 5 round string same day I measured the 223. New 9V battery too. I'm using TAC powder, mixed LC brass, tula primers, and MG 55 bullets. New (less than 20 rounds) 18in BCM SS barrel. Very slight crimp. Loaded 2.23 OAL and 24.9 gr. groups are bad at 2.5-3 with possible flyers also. Velocity - 2741 2796 2663 2782 2746 2884 2847 2672 What could be causing the velocity issues? I also tried 75 Hornadys at 2.26 OAL with federal match primers and 24.0 gr. Groups were still 2inches Velocity - 2542 2617 2645 I shot Black Hills 50gr I got at a match and groups were right at 1in zo I don't think my barrel is bad. I'm more worried about the large velocity range with my reloads than accuracy of them. Edited January 21, 2013 by Forgetful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Are you giving the powder plenty of time to drop? The 223 has a very small opening & you have to allow time for the powder to drop fully. I try to give it a count of at least "a thousand & one" before continuing with handle movement. After loading lots of pistol ammo, I had to learn this part. Gotta wait on the powder. MLM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgetful Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Are you giving the powder plenty of time to drop? The 223 has a very small opening & you have to allow time for the powder to drop fully. I try to give it a count of at least "a thousand & one" before continuing with handle movement. After loading lots of pistol ammo, I had to learn this part. Gotta wait on the powder. MLM I had no idea, I'll give it a shot next time. I normally crank the handle rather fast to speed up the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Load up 5 rounds measuring each powder charge. Try those and see what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I give my powder a count to let it all fall. Bottle neck cases are very sensitive to variables, even within the same brand. I have had my best results by separating the cases by brand. I am now pretty anal about each step. Every case gets Swage with the Dillon Super Swager, trimmed with the Dillon 1200, then the primer pocket and flash hole are reamed by hand. I use VV powder and my results are very consistent. Previously I was not paying attention to all the steps and my velocities were all over the place. I have blown more than one primer out. I can push a 69gr SMK out to 2900 fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer67 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I'm using TAC powder, mixed LC brass, tula primers, and MG 55 bullets. New (less than 20 rounds) 18in BCM SS barrel. Very slight crimp. Loaded 2.23 OAL and 24.9 gr. groups are bad at 2.5-3 with possible flyers also I have that same barrel in BCM and have loaded 24.7 gr of TAC with that Montana Gold 55 gr FMJ bullet. I can tell you it's not the load you're using. Using 2011 purchased 55 gr MG FMJ, I could put 10 rounds into .9 MOA with that combo, velocity is only 2,925 or so on average @ 24.7 grains and 2.23 OAL. My recent batch of MG 55 gr FMJs is completely inconsistent. I have at least three different ogives I've found, that seat between 0.0" of my desired measurement with a Redding Comp. seater and as much as .02" off. Flyers pop up even when seated to my desired OAL and with sorting loaded rounds by their OALs. I'd weigh ~20 charges and load them by hand to rule out your powder measure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Weidhaas Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Personally, I'd try a ball powder like H335 or Winchester 748 in a progressive press. Tac is a spherical propellant. I found that with the small case mouth, anything other than a ball powder wouldn't meter well in from my 550. My 550 drops H335 easily and gives consistent very velocities. Try some 55gr. Nosler ballistic tips or Hornady 55gr. Vmax to really see some accuracy. Consitently shoot submoa. Shot many 1.5" groups at 300 from my 3gun ARs (both 1:8 twist JP and DPMS barrels). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbauer67 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 TAC is a ball powder, and meters just like H335. There have been several people who have said they have had accuracy issues with the Montana gold 55's, the older batches were very good, but more recent 2012 batches have been very inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 How close is the chrono to the muzzle? I'd try different primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco79 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 +1000!! I was loading 45's and was able to crank them out.. But now loading 223's, I have to wait a sec or so. I still get spilled powder. Small pieces of TAC are every where on the bench LOL. But yea, slow it down.. Are you giving the powder plenty of time to drop? The 223 has a very small opening & you have to allow time for the powder to drop fully. I try to give it a count of at least "a thousand & one" before continuing with handle movement. After loading lots of pistol ammo, I had to learn this part. Gotta wait on the powder. MLM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey A Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 MG bullets have had major problems out of there latest batches . There are a Lot of people complaining and it doesn't seem that Montana Gold is going to do anything about it. A recent test proved it for me , drastic results from old stock to new stock with the only thing changing is the bullets. Bad thing is Montana gold sent me 1k to replace mine and they were just as bad. Now they will not answer the emails, Lord knows they won't answer the phone !! These bullets are DANGEROUS flyers , velocity spikes , comp damage. I see a big law suit if they don't do something quick or worse someone gets killed because who knows where they are going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey A Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) Double post , sorry ! Edited February 2, 2013 by Trey A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELNinO619 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I have never used Montana so I can't speak on that. But are you crimping, different variances in OAL can change the crimping effect and put you all over the place. Try not to crimp a few and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Pull the bullets on a couple loaded cartridges, and measure the powder charge. If its not consistent, then you know its your method of throwing the charge to the case. Make a small batch of cartridges using the same headstamp marked brass, trimmed to the same OAL, and trickle charge the powder within 1/10th of a grain to each. Weigh bullets just like powder, assure this batch has all within 1/10th of a grain. After seating the bullet, mic the OAL, take out any that didn't seat the same. This is your control group. Group them off a bench and chrono. You know the data will be sound and accurate and you can make adjustments and trouble from there. Every time you change your load make another control group. When you change from a trickle charge to any various type of dispenser, measure a good handful of throws from it out of the case. This way you know the average, and spread of the throws. So when you chono, you will understand the difference in group size and standard deviation relative to your control group. Record all your data and take good notes, so you can go back to it if anything changes later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Forgetful, Just a quick thought; Are you trimming all the brass to one length, like 1.750? jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 cound be several things. First weigh 10 rounds and crono them. If your ES goes down to 60 or so then your doing fine, my match .223 ammo and RL 15 has 50 FPS and thats with weighed charges etc. TAC is kind of slow for 55 bullets so there could be something there. Neck tension and sizing could also be an issue; If its range brass and even if you size it all you will have variations in internal capacity as you will not get all the brass sized back to the same point. As far as neck tension goes and if you have bushing dies then try a smaller bushing, it will give you more tension and that could help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgetful Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 I really appreciate all the advice everyone. I am using a trimmer at ~1.75 on range pickup LC brass. Things I’ve now changed- Letting the powder drop an extra few seconds, Being very consistent in pressure and movement, More lube on cases to stop press from shaking as much in resizing, More crimp, Making sure each station has brass in it, Reduced the OAL on the Hornady 75s to 2.250, I’m leaving the seating die the same for the MG 55s and getting 1.19 OAL, Also leaving the powder dropper at 24.1gr for both MG and Hornady. After playing with charge weights it seems my rifle likes Hornady 75s with TAC at 24.1gr for a velocity of 2660 and a ES of ~50-70fps. This gives 1.5 MOA at 200 yards with a 8mph variable wind. The darn MG cannot be pushed at any “reasonable” speed and maintain accuracy. I forget the velocity of them with 24.1gr of TAC but it’s low. 25gr was 6 MOA groups. But at least I’m getting ~2.5MOA groups now. Oh well, dedicated short range since I’m not sure it can activate steel at 300 reliably (especially in my GF’s 14.5inch gun). And still get an odd flyer occasionally- Seems to be the story with the recent MG 223 stuff…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer67 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) The recent MGs 55 gr FMJ are complete crap. However, I don't think they ever liked to be pushed much past 3,100 fps or they would open up, just not to 6+ MOA. I ran 25.7 gr of H335 behind recent 55 gr MGs and 6 of 10 rounds didn't hit an 18X18" target @ 100 yds. 4 of 10 didn't even hit the cardboard. Out of my 18", that load should run ~3100 fps. For some reason, they like 25 gr of AA2230 or 24.7 gr of TAC better (they're slower), I only get 1/10 or 2/10 that are flyers and usually "only" 2-3" off the main group. Edited February 12, 2013 by mizer67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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