Time for first Optic

[mbrody]

My first AR is almost done so I figure it a good time to get an Optic order going. (I ordered it to be built)

Please help me decide as I keep reading and going back and forth without a clue. Maybe I can't make a bad decision here.

My need is for 3 gun and Tactical events where the range has mostly hoser and targets that are within 50 yds. An occasional 75 with the possibility to go upto 100. Majority paper USPSA style.

My focus will be on fast sight acquisition, so I am thinking Red Dot from either EoTech, Aimpoint or Trijicon SRS. Leaning toward AImpoint or Trijicon. Aimpoint models either the PRO or the Micro. I envision shooting two eyes open.

I hope to have a second upper someday for 22LR and wanted to swap the optic, so a mount recommendation is welcomed too.

BTW, if I have a second upper, when switching mounts, I assume that I will have to go to the range and zero each swap, correct?

Thank you, Mike

[ronin16]

Trijicon TR24R is a great starter optic for your application and reasonably priced!!!

[Alaskapopo]

The standard answer for a entry level three gun optic in tac optics is the Burris MTAC. Great scope for the money. The Trijicon TR24 is also good and I own one for my back up rifle. But its more expensive and has no BDC reticle.

Pat

[mcracco]

I just put a Burris MTAC on my 3G (which is a great scope) but if you're shooting is mostly <50yards I lean towards the EO Tech XPS-0 with 1MOA dot. Can't beat it for close targets and you can still hit a pepper popper at 100 yards.

[Alaskapopo]

I just put a Burris MTAC on my 3G (which is a great scope) but if you're shooting is mostly <50yards I lean towards the EO Tech XPS-0 with 1MOA dot. Can't beat it for close targets and you can still hit a pepper popper at 100 yards.

Your right but he may want to shoot some bigger matches some time and if he does the Eotech is much more limited. Also I am not thrilled with the durability and reliability of the Eotech personally having used them for some 6 years of my 13 years on as a LEO. If your going to go with a red dot personally I recommend Aimpoint.

[Brian Payne]

I would just use Irons. Shoot some matches, see other peoples equipment, test drive if possible, then decide.

[MarkCO]

I would just use Irons. Shoot some matches, see other peoples equipment, test drive if possible, then decide.

Great advice...concur.

[mbrody]

Thank you for the general feedback.

It's a Flat Top, so I would have to add irons that can attach to the Piccanty rail and also would need something to attach to the handguard up front. I'm not opposed to starting with irons, but I will have to buy a set of irons specifically, so my thought is should I just put the money into a Dot or optic instead? I could also use one of the angled optics and just tilt the gun to the side...

[Lead-Head]

I am all about irons. At the distances you are talking, irons are pretty competitive, even against optics. You would even be fine with regular sight radius.

If you must have a scope, the tac30 Burris is about as good a deal as I have found ($300). I shot optics for first time last season just to get a rifle set up quick. Now I will probably shoot the same scope again this year because I can't find an optic that I like much better.

[Alaskapopo]

I personally would not waste the money on irons as good ones cost almost as much as a good optic. Your better off doing the research and figuring out what you like. Go to a store check out the scopes in person. Go to a match check out what you see and then pull the trigger on the scope or red dot that fits you best.

Pat

[EkuJustice]

If you want magnification check out the Burris tac 30 or millet dms. I went with the latter due to liking the single dot and circle. If you wanna shoot the tac iron ie no magnification check out the leupold prismatic

[T Bacus]

If the range was never going to be greater than 100 yards I'd still be using a Leupold CQ/T.

[mbrody]

Going to try and find some stores to get a look.

With so many short range targets, I really am wrestling with the Red Dot vs Optic (1x-3/4x). My fear is that the real close stuff will still be slow with the 1x-3/4x vs the Red Dot at only 1x.

I had a horrible experience shooting close targets with a scope that had fixed magnification. Still makes me cringe.

[MarkCO]

If you opt for a good 1x4, you won't have to worry at all. If you get a cheap one or one not suited for the game, might have some issues.

My 11 year old is shooting a Sightron 1x blackpowder scope (got it for $69) so when/if he moves to magnified, just a scope swap on the mount. Kid was running 0.3 splits and 0.3 transitions last week...first time he shot it. It is a cheap scope, but gets him started and he was shooting the AR almost as fast as he shoots the 10/22 with a fastfire.

[mbrody]

Well, my need for my first Optic has crashed and burned. Thank you for your support and answers. Hopefully there is another alternative, but

I believe NYS Law just crushed my JP-15 on order for months now...a sad day.

[kimberacp]

am sure we ALL feel your pain!!!!!! its coming...and its going to impact ALL of us, one way or another.

[Boxer1]

That is too bad. If you ever move away and can own one again look at the Prismatic sight from Leupold you can shoot Tac Irons and it does not require batteries to opperate so no forgetting to turn it on.

[mbrody]

Thanks fellas. I am sure we are all in for a rough ride. I am crossing ,my fingers for the best for everyone...

[TheMiz]

Are there any major differences between the MTAC and he tac30? Is the price difference all in the glass?

[photoracer]

Yes the MTAC has clearer better glass in it. When I decided to switch optics for 2013 I had planned on going all the way up to the Vortex Razor HD II 1-6x24 as I had the funds but some vehicle repairs got in the way and I had to scale back. Looked thru a few other scopes at my last 2012 event and got a chance to look thru my gunsmith's MTAC 1.5-6x and decided that was the reticle I liked, but I wanted the shorter scope so ordered the 1-4x24 MTAC. It just seemed a little clearer than the TAC30. no events yet this year but I like the scope so far. Turning the reticle brightness up makes it almost as easy to use with my eyes at 1x as the red dots I shoot in other venues.

[TheMiz]

Are both true 1x? Thanks for the reply btw.

[mbrody]

Luck is with me. This is back on the table. Pris? Aim point? Or 1-4x?

[jkrispies]

I agree with Brian Payne-- it's a good idea to have BUIS regardless so get those and experiment with other people's investments before spending your own $$$. It seems like hardly anybody really learns how to shoot their irons, too, so it's a good learning experience that will give you a leg-up on others should an iron sight face-off present itself. Check out the Brownells 360 irons as they're reasonably priced and work fantastically, IMHO. A.R.M.S. also has a BUIS that is designed for handguard mounting (on the front) that is inexpensive and looks promising though I've never seen one in the flesh.

If you're really aching to get into the game with an optic, I'd suggest a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot to start. With a UTG mount it will only run you $100. No, I'm NOT in any way suggesting that you stick with it forever (it probably won't survive too many dives into the dirt), but it's something to tide you over till you figure out what you'll get for the long haul. It'll also give you some "hands on" with a red dot to help you decide if you want to stick with a higher quality dot or a 1x variable. Once you've made up your mind, the TRS-25 will find a perfect home on a 10/22... just like mine has! Or, if you get a dedicated .22lr upper, you could put the TRS-25 on that, then do an Aimpoint Micro on the .223 which will give you a pretty good practice clone.

There's unique advantages to variables vs red-dots-- you just need to try each and decide which is better for you. If you're absolutely not shooting beyond 100 yards, I'd personally lean towards the dot.

For what it's worth, I used to have a Burris TAC30 and liked it enough to recommend it to others. I left a review and follow-up review of it on Brownells. I've since sold it and, frankly, if I were were to go the Burris route again I'd spend the extra $150 on an MTAC simply for the illumination dial, although I hear that the glass is a little better as well, which would make it pretty doggone good glass at that price point.

Edited February 9, 2013 by jkrispies

[mbrody]

I like this idea...I just can't figure it out without some experience. Looks like i will start with the dot. Thanks!

I agree with Brian Payne-- it's a good idea to have BUIS regardless so get those and experiment with other people's investments before spending your own $$$. It seems like hardly anybody really learns how to shoot their irons, too, so it's a good learning experience that will give you a leg-up on others should an iron sight face-off present itself. Check out the Brownells 360 irons as they're reasonably priced and work fantastically, IMHO. A.R.M.S. also has a BUIS that is designed for handguard mounting (on the front) that is inexpensive and looks promising though I've never seen one in the flesh.

If you're really aching to get into the game with an optic, I'd suggest a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot to start. With a UTG mount it will only run you $100. No, I'm NOT in any way suggesting that you stick with it forever (it probably won't survive too many dives into the dirt), but it's something to tide you over till you figure out what you'll get for the long haul. It'll also give you some "hands on" with a red dot to help you decide if you want to stick with a higher quality dot or a 1x variable. Once you've made up your mind, the TRS-25 will find a perfect home on a 10/22... just like mine has! Or, if you get a dedicated .22lr upper, you could put the TRS-25 on that, then do an Aimpoint Micro on the .223 which will give you a pretty good practice clone.

There's unique advantages to variables vs red-dots-- you just need to try each and decide which is better for you. If you're absolutely not shooting beyond 100 yards, I'd personally lean towards the dot.

For what it's worth, I used to have a Burris TAC30 and liked it enough to recommend it to others. I left a review and follow-up review of it on Brownells. I've since sold it and, frankly, if I were were to go the Burris route again I'd spend the extra $150 on an MTAC simply for the illumination dial, although I hear that the glass is a little better as well, which would make it pretty doggone good glass at that price point.

[jkrispies]

My pleasure. Keep an eye out and you can find the Bushnell for about $80 on sale. Most of the major sellers (along with eBay and Amazon) have them in stock. UTG makes the cheapy mount that works. You can read my review of the TRS-25 at Brownells if you're so inclined. Again, I wouldn't choose it for a long term solution unless you baby the gun, as I've read some "torture tests" where it didn't fair well!