DonovanM Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 "Welcome to Open"? Did I really "refinish" it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 In USPSA Refinishing is perfectly legal. Modifying isn't (except for the purpose of installing sights.) See Appendix D4, 21.2 I believe the IPSC rules are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 what did you do to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 what did you do to it It looks like it has a bunch of holster wear. Barely noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I think "technically" you are now in open because you did it to gain an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) I think "technically" you are now in open because you did it to gain an advantage. What if I did it to make it look like the HK45 in The Book of Eli? (It's barely noticeable, but still) LOL. I guess I'm just being a lawyer here. It's gonna get sent out for some Tungsten Cerakote. Edited January 3, 2013 by DonovanM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I think "technically" you are now in open because you did it to gain an advantage. What if I did it to make it look like the HK45 in The Book of Eli? (It's barely noticeable, but still) LOL. I guess I'm just being a lawyer here. It's gonna get sent out for some Tungsten Cerakote. You would have been fine if you hadn't announced it to the entire shooting world. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Just check the Limited or Limited 10 box when you sign up and you don't have to worry about Open. Normal wear, accelerated wear with sand paper, re finishing... Interesting are they different? I guess it goes towards intent. I always wonder how "intent" factors into USPSA rules or if it should. Factors in quite a bit with rules of golf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szhttm Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Just curious; but, what "advantage" would the OP be gaining by what he did? Good Luck And Be Safe!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edison Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 BS. It's a glock. It's harder than diamond. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I guess it goes towards intent. I always wonder how "intent" factors into USPSA rules or if it should. Factors in quite a bit with rules of golf. Doesn't factor a whole lot. Especially once the ink is dry on the written rule. Golf sucks*, btw. * because I'm not good at golf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 what did you do to it It looks like it has a bunch of holster wear. Barely noticeable. Sounds OK to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Just check the Limited or Limited 10 box when you sign up and you don't have to worry about Open. Normal wear, accelerated wear with sand paper, re finishing... Interesting are they different? I guess it goes towards intent. I always wonder how "intent" factors into USPSA rules or if it should. Factors in quite a bit with rules of golf. Have any of you guys bothered to read the USPSA rulebook? When it comes to refinishing the slide, there is no mention of intent or advantage (significant or otherwise.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Just check the Limited or Limited 10 box when you sign up and you don't have to worry about Open. Normal wear, accelerated wear with sand paper, re finishing... Interesting are they different? I guess it goes towards intent. I always wonder how "intent" factors into USPSA rules or if it should. Factors in quite a bit with rules of golf. Have any of you guys bothered to read the USPSA rulebook? When it comes to refinishing the slide, there is no mention of intent or advantage (significant or otherwise.) Just playing devil's advocate, as I wouldn't bump Donovan to Open for sanding his slide a bit, but how do you interpret this ruling from 4/5/2011? "a competitor may not paint dots, stripes or anything to help them reload or align sights quicker, cosmetic finishes only as per 21.2a "this clause is now interpreted to specifically allow refinishing the frame as well as the slide, subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage). Item 22 also goes on to say that the absence of an item in the list of prohibited modifications may not be construed to mean a modification is allowed. A modification is only allowed in Production Division if there is a rules clause or interpretation which specifically declares that it is allowed." It clearly states that only cosmetic refinishing of the slide is allowed. If the shooter refinished his gun for an advantage, then it wouldn't be allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Well, when considering Donovan's Facebook post states: "The slides of my Gen4 Glocks have always been a little too slippery for me. I was wondering what to do about it. I was genuinely lost for answers, until I remembered it was a Glock. So I used some 220 grit sandpaper. 100% improvement." After upon reading Appendix D4 from the rule book I'd say it sounds pretty clear cut to me he may only use the particular gun in question in either LTD, L10, or Open Div. from here on. From the 2010 USPSA Handgun Rulebook: APPENDIX D4 - PRODUCTION DIVISION - 21.2a Slide - refinishing: • Per existing NROI ruling, cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide is already ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no competitive advantage. Special Notes/Clarifications: • Any finish which provides a non-cosmetic function will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun finish which provides a roughened texture in an area where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a PROHIBITED modification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I think Chris nailed it....and has the proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Well, when considering Donovan's Facebook post states: "The slides of my Gen4 Glocks have always been a little too slippery for me. I was wondering what to do about it. I was genuinely lost for answers, until I remembered it was a Glock. So I used some 220 grit sandpaper. 100% improvement." After upon reading Appendix D4 from the rule book I'd say it sounds pretty clear cut to me he may only use the particular gun in question in either LTD, L10, or Open Div. from here on. From the 2010 USPSA Handgun Rulebook: APPENDIX D4 - PRODUCTION DIVISION - 21.2a Slide - refinishing: • Per existing NROI ruling, cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide is already ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no competitive advantage. Special Notes/Clarifications: • Any finish which provides a non-cosmetic function will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun finish which provides a roughened texture in an area where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a PROHIBITED modification. That is what I was basing my post on as well. I too saw the FB post, but didn't want to call him out. I don't think anyone will ever give a rats butt to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 He needs to post a picture of the gun. You can't tell that anything has happened. And anyone who has shot Glocks for a long time knows that the recent finishes they've been putting on the slides are slick, but that the luster wears off over time. This just sounds like accelerated wear to me, not a "refinishing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I was all for "intent" on this but, with the "Special Notes/Claifications:" that Chris posted, does it really matter what it looks like or what Donovan's intent was? The finish provided a roughened texture in an area wither grip tape is not allowed. ------------------------------------------------------------ Special Notes/Clarifications: • Any finish which provides a non-cosmetic function will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun finish which provides a roughened texture in an area where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a PROHIBITED modification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) Well, when considering Donovan's Facebook post states: "The slides of my Gen4 Glocks have always been a little too slippery for me. I was wondering what to do about it. I was genuinely lost for answers, until I remembered it was a Glock. So I used some 220 grit sandpaper. 100% improvement." After upon reading Appendix D4 from the rule book I'd say it sounds pretty clear cut to me he may only use the particular gun in question in either LTD, L10, or Open Div. from here on. From the 2010 USPSA Handgun Rulebook: APPENDIX D4 - PRODUCTION DIVISION - 21.2a Slide - refinishing: • Per existing NROI ruling, cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide is already ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no competitive advantage. Special Notes/Clarifications: • Any finish which provides a non-cosmetic function will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun finish which provides a roughened texture in an area where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a PROHIBITED modification. So what you're saying is, my getting bumped to Open would hinge upon a post I made on Facebook? So what do I do, sand it again until it's smoother? Then I'll be legal? (if I weren't going to Cerakote it, that is) I think it looks awesome. It serves a cosmetic purpose. Most of it is actually holster wear. Here's a pic. Obviously the modifications to this pistol constitute belonging in Open division. Edited January 3, 2013 by DonovanM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 What if I decide to rub Progrip on the sides of my slide before a match? Does that constitute refinishing? It would certainly make it more grippier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Sand it down with finer grit sandpaper until the texturing is gone. Then duracoat it and you will be fine. It would be an easy and cheap fix. After you get down to maybe 800 or 1000 grit the duracoat will fill in the rest. Maybe you could just beadblast it and have a stainless colared slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Sand it down with finer grit sandpaper until the texturing is gone. Then duracoat it and you will be fine. It would be an easy and cheap fix. After you get down to maybe 800 or 1000 grit the duracoat will fill in the rest. Maybe you could just beadblast it and have a stainless colared slide. That's what I was thinking, actually! Either sand it all smooth, or refinish it. And no I don't think it makes a huge a difference / advantage, but then again I don't make up the rules. Even if they clearly state you can't refinish your slide to gain a competitive advantage. And in regards to your Facebook post, I would only think common sense should prevail there ...... if you don't want people to scrutinize your gun, then don't tell the world you used 200 grit sandpaper on your slide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Well, when considering Donovan's Facebook post states: "The slides of my Gen4 Glocks have always been a little too slippery for me. I was wondering what to do about it. I was genuinely lost for answers, until I remembered it was a Glock. So I used some 220 grit sandpaper. 100% improvement." After upon reading Appendix D4 from the rule book I'd say it sounds pretty clear cut to me he may only use the particular gun in question in either LTD, L10, or Open Div. from here on. From the 2010 USPSA Handgun Rulebook: APPENDIX D4 - PRODUCTION DIVISION - 21.2a Slide - refinishing: • Per existing NROI ruling, cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide is already ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no competitive advantage. Special Notes/Clarifications: • Any finish which provides a non-cosmetic function will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun finish which provides a roughened texture in an area where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a PROHIBITED modification. So what you're saying is, my getting bumped to Open would hinge upon a post I made on Facebook? So what do I do, sand it again until it's smoother? Then I'll be legal? (if I weren't going to Cerakote it, that is) I think it looks awesome. It serves a cosmetic purpose. Most of it is actually holster wear. Here's a pic. Obviously the modifications to this pistol constitute belonging in Open division. Looks just like the slide of my Gen2 G22 I used to shoot. It is about 20 years old and was a Sumter, SC PD gun in a previous life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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