Foxbat Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Could someone please give the quick of what to expect when switching from the two mentioned in the header to Sillhouette? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharoh Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 off topic a bit but I've tried all 3 in 9mm major and hodgon longshot was the winner for me. The 3 you mention I found its hard to compare them because they react different in all open pistols (dif comp designs etc) the only way to tell what you like is to try a 1lb of each in your pistol and see what you like best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Hello: Silhouette shots alot like HS-6 but is a little cleaner. I find it a little harsher with a little more dot movement. The thing I don't like about Silhouette is that it is reverse temp sensitive. I also found it changed batch to batch so chrono your loads when it is warm and cold. I use HS-6 in the 171-173 power factor and it is cleaner than at 167PF. It is worth a try to see if you like it. I have used HS-6, Silhouette, Winchester Auto Comp and 3N37 in my 9mm with 115 grain bullets. HS-6 is the winner for me Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmo412 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I second everything aircooled6racer said. I tried all of those powders, and settled on HS6. Silhouette is also good, but I did not like autocomp at all. If you are using 124s, try 9.5-10.0gr of accurate #7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glk21C Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I use aa#5, but no holes in the barrel behind MG 124 CMJ's. Foxbat has seen mine. AA#7 is good, just need to get enough in the case for complete burning, otherwise it does leave lots of remants. It is a slow powder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Thirds! And something I feel is very important in major 9, HS6 does not flatten primers, even just plain ol small pistol primers. I don't need to hide overpressures with harder primers that leak and cut the breechface. Also the notion that 9mm major ruins brass is a myth, IF the correct powder is being used. I pick up as much of my brass as I can find and reload it, no problem. jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 WAC is the best for me. My gun has a slower barrel than most I guess. (Briley) I could not get above 170 with 3N37 because the case was nearly completely full. HS6 was OK. Sil was filling the case way up as well and I too found it to fluctuate with temperatures. WAC is clean and even 7.3 grains leaves plenty of room in the case. With all the other powders I was well into the 8.5+ grain range and still hovering around 169-170. That's with a 121 IFP. I was loading out so long that I was getting the occasional feed issue. With WAC I am back down to 1.167 and get a very consistent, very flat, 173 PF in all weather. I agree with Rigger on one point. I have reloaded some of my brass too many times to count. I do use Small Rifle primers though because everything I was loading was flattening pistol primers. My primers now show just a small amount of flattening. Just barely changing the profile of the edge of the primer. I think they are all good powders. I would just get a little of each and keep shooting them back to back WITH A TIMER. I found that with WAC I was consistently more accurate with follow ups. It's all timing for sure and it will be different for every shooter but it should be tested. With WAC I can put two very close together typically, and faster that I can with the others. Only you and your gun will be able to figure your best load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 Thank you guys, good answers! I did not mean to start yet another "Favorite Powder" thread, just curious about the Sillhouette, since SVI strongly recommends it. As I am very familiar with WAC and HS6 I used them as point of reference. One more question - SVI advises against the use of rifle primers in their open guns: "Winchester/Federal Small Pistol Primer - second choice is magnum primes but please no rifle primers" Any idea why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Probably something to do with either reliable ignition of breach face erosion. I can't imagine using a soft Fed SPP in a 9MAJOR. My guess it they spring the guns very light to get the trigger weight lowww. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 I have actually used the SPP with no issues, but curious why such a recommendation from SVI. Yes, I know I can ask Brando... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMartens Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Silhouette is my primary powder and HS6 is backup with 115 and 124 grain bullets. I do shoot 115's almost exclusively as they are just amazingly flat and accurate. It is hard to tell the difference between the two powders in my gun but, shooting the same stage over and over where the time is equal I always score better with Silhouette. I have also used SR and SP primers with no issues. Wolf, Win, Fed, CCI all work just fine and there is little, if any, difference over the chrono. I'm guessing SVI is protecting the breach face on the primer recommendation and I'm sure the powder tip is based on some pretty good insight with their set up. Also, I load at 1.145-1.156 depending on the bullet, MG or Zero, and I have no problem with compressed loads or slinging powder with a 650. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33249 FWIW the only sign of breech erosion i've ever seen was my 10mm Glock, all ammo used Federal Large Pistol primers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) Asked Brandon - basically it boils down to the fact there is no need for harder, rifle primers, at our PF of 170-715. They put in 17# main spring and I think the concern is light strike in some cases, so SPP give you more assurance. Personally, I have never seen a misfire with a 17# spring, but this is just an extra safety margin. Edited December 22, 2012 by Foxbat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I use Silhouette in my Limcat with 6 holes in the barrel. I am loading 8.1 gr Silhouette, 124 MG CMJ, Win SRP at 1.155. It makes 171 PF. I shot this load in 98 degree weather and shot it today in 45 degree weather and did not notice any difference in the feel or dot movement. If it stays cold this week I will chrono it after Christmas to see what the PF is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammar Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 My silhouette load went from warm weather power factor of 172 down to 168 in colder temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I use Silhouette in my Limcat with 6 holes in the barrel. I am loading 8.1 gr Silhouette, 124 MG CMJ, Win SRP at 1.155. It makes 171 PF. I shot this load in 98 degree weather and shot it today in 45 degree weather and did not notice any difference in the feel or dot movement. If it stays cold this week I will chrono it after Christmas to see what the PF is. Hello: You are now shooting about 178PF or more at 45 degrees. I have never had a problem with WSR or Winchester magnum pistol primers. Federal small pistol primers flatten out a some with HS-6. 3N37 will flatten Winchester small rifle primers at 176PF badly. Another note is that Winchester small rifle primers are actually slower than Winchester small pistol magnum primers. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Juice? Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) Personally, I wouldn't use silhouette. The powder's burning curve is not consistant over time from an internal ballistics standpoint. It is a sharp pressure spike, then nothing.... I've tried it in open guns (there are better options) and standard guns (friggin awful impulse) i actually burned the last of my powder outside on the concrete. Typically in an open gun you want a 'long burn' with lots of gas rather than a short quick burn with Lots of gas. The ONLY thing the slide and recoil spring should do is provide enough force (by momentum) to cock the hammer and strip another round out of the magazine. It is a balancing act, but the first thing to do is load so the compensator is working 100%. Then address the recoil spring (dont let the slide bottom out or crash forward) and lastly the mainspring. As an example. 357SIG open gun. CAPE Gattling comp. 22MS 9RS. We made major with 14,7gn oh H110. 166pf. You would think the job was done. WRONG. The slide was crashing and bashing the heck out of the frame. So, back to load development (and some ice for the wrists.. It was that bad) As we approached 15gn the gun started to settle down, and at 15.5gn the gun was just as flat as 15.2gn. So 15.3 was the winning load for consistancy. That gun is FLAT. Recoil is 3/8" dot at 10yds. Adding more powder did 2 things: 1 it slowed down the burn. 2 created a lot more gas which made the comp work as designed. If the shooter gets lazy while shooting this gun, the slide will not go to battery with a new round if his elbows are cocked. So we went up .5lb on the recoil spring and the gun is a beaut to shoot. Did I mention the PF? 189!!!! So while we might go thru a barrel a bit faster, at least the frame and slide will be in good shape. After 6000 rounds we sent the gun to a smith, and the reports on frame and slide interaction was excellent, no uneven wear, rails were all true top to bottom, inner and outer. Edited December 23, 2012 by Got Juice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Juice? Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Then there is the Standard gun load for my Apeiro. Same thoughts on internal ballistics. I made major PF of 175 with 4.6gn of titegroup under a 180gn Berrys. But the gun was a monster to shoot. Snappy recoil, frame bashing ugly SOB to shoot. Changes out some springs with the EE WARPSPEED trigger kit. Now sporting a 22lbMS and a 11lb variable. Load developed is now 5.2gn of titegroup and it feels like a 'hot' minor load....until you chrono and the fellows shooting with you go bannannas over a 191PF. BUT the gun likes it. Just rememver if the load is 'snappy' and all over hard to shoot, just think (if you cannot feel it) of the damage to your slide and frame as they are bashing the crap out of each other. Yes, you will wear our a barrel faster. No argument there. But it's cheaper to rebarrel than wear out the entire gun. And that is where a lot of people mess up. They do not perform due diligence on load development. They load to PF and say 'good enough' But it's not good enough. I have a CZ shadow loaded with 4.3gn of titegroup. It makes 145PF with a 124gn berrys. Way way way over minor PF. But it shoots smoother and with less recoil than the 3.7gn Load that makes 130PF. Food for thought. My next experiment will be some H322 for the Sig. Very slow stick powder for my .204. But it is super clean with a nice citrus smell. It might be too slow for a 4.5"bbl but... Thats the fun in load development. Lots of failed experiments, but when you get it right...wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbosik Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I have used all 3 and like Silhouette best, then Autocomp, then HS-6. All work well, hs6 just seem the harshest. Felt recoil is subjective..so if possible try 1lb of each, then decide for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbosik Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Btw, my pistol is a full size with 4 ports in the comp and a hybrid comp barrel with 4 holes chambered in 38 supercomp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I have used all 3 and like Silhouette best, then Autocomp, then HS-6. All work well, hs6 just seem the harshest. Felt recoil is subjective..so if possible try 1lb of each, then decide for yourself. Hello: You found HS-6 to be harsher than WAC? That is very hard to believe at the same power factor. HS-6 is the softest of all the powders I have used for 9mm major. AA#7 is a gritty powder and will actually slow down the cycling of a tight pistol. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Switched form HS6 to Silhouette, less case volume, less dot movement and cleaner. Haven't had a problem with change in PF through normal shooting temperature. But that's me and my open pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 The average person loading 9 Major with Silhouette need not worry about temp sensitivity. I used Sil for years. We shoot indoors in Ohio with no heat during the winter. My Sil loads increased enough to sting my hand. I never did chrono the winter loads. I did chrono when the temp was around 60. I went to Nationals one year and the temp was 103-110. I went 165.2 and my normal was 172. Silhouette is a great powder for a lot of 9 Major guns. Since WAC came on the market, many folks like WAC. I don't. I currently use HS6 and find the "only" downside is dirtier than most. I can clean my gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Hammar you PF went down in cold weather ? Evrybody is saying it bis reverse temp sensitive. I guess I will have to chrono my loads to find out. The only problem is the weather is getting back into the 70s this week. As I said in my previous post there was no difference noted in feel or dot movement in 45 degree weather as compared to the same load in 98 degree weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbosik Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Aircooled6racer,, for me, I would say yes.. wac felt better then hs6.. I may be the odd man out, but that is not un-common. I will say that the pf may have not been exactly the same but within a couple points. my loads were 8.7 hs6/125 zero jhp @1.235oal,,7.5 wac 124cmj mg @ 1.260 ,, 8.3 silhouette 125jhp zero @ 1.235 oal, & 7.9 n350 125 jhp @1.235 oal . the vv n350 and hs6 felt similar to me..Silhouette was the champ for me. outside temp was 60 degrees and cloudy in s.e. georgia.. your results may/will vary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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