424D57 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I'm considering a stage with an optional target. Think similar to a disappearing target such that not engaging is not a FTSA, and mikes are no penalty, just without the activator. WSB might read something like, "Engage T1 and T3-T6 with 2 rounds each" (blatantly not mentioning T2, the 'option'). After consulting the rule book, I'm still left with the feeling this would make an illegal stage. Anyone seen this before? Anyone able to assist my reading impairment to call out the rule that makes this either definitively illegal or otherwise? Thanks -424D57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 you'd probably have to set it up as disappering target. that would be the only way to score the stage because of the scoring programs. this would be a level one stage only. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 1.1.5 Freestyle – USPSA matches are freestyle. Competitors must be permitted to solve the challenge presented in a freestyle manner, and to shoot targets on an “as and when visible” basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 9.5.1 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, scoring paper targets must be shot with a minimum of one round each, with the best two hits to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) 9.5.7 A competitor who fails to shoot at the face of each scoring target in a course of fire with at least one round will incur one procedural penalty per target for failure to shoot at the target, as well as appropriate penalties for misses (see Rule 10.2.7). Edited December 4, 2012 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 what is the point of having an 'optional' target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
424D57 Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 9.5.7 A competitor who fails to shoot at the face of each scoring target in a course of fire with at least one round will incur one procedural penalty per target for failure to shoot at the target, as well as appropriate penalties for misses (see Rule 10.2.7). That's a good one; thanks Sarge! what is the point of having an 'optional' target? Give the competitor a choice between the time or points, or in some cases a reload and time or points. Was just thinking of ways to present the shooter with odd challenges, and this was one I considered for an environment with logistical challenges with adding an activator. -424D57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Give the competitor a choice between the time or points, or in some cases a reload and time or points. Was just thinking of ways to present the shooter with odd challenges, and this was one I considered for an environment with logistical challenges with adding an activator. fair enough. I guess you have to just make it challenging enough to be a time or points+penalties situation. maybe you could make a manually disappearing target (pull a rope that tips the target over)..... or something. or get creative with making a disappearing target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22 shooter Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 All disapearing targets are optional targets. They're bonus points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 A disappearing target seems to be the only legal way (that comes to mind). Even then, it needs to be worth the effort. The points have to justify the time. Are you a new stage designer or Match Director? If so, I always like the enthusiasm of the new blood. But, after getting some time in steering boat...most tend to realize they can test things (shooting) without risking getting the boat stuck on a sandbar [/goofy analogy]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
424D57 Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 A disappearing target seems to be the only legal way (that comes to mind). Even then, it needs to be worth the effort. The points have to justify the time. Are you a new stage designer or Match Director? If so, I always like the enthusiasm of the new blood. But, after getting some time in steering boat...most tend to realize they can test things (shooting) without risking getting the boat stuck on a sandbar [/goofy analogy]. I don't think I would go so far as to call myself a stage designer, but yes I'm designing a stage and yes I'm new to it. All thoughts definitely appreciated; as I said initially I felt pretty sure there was a reason I couldn't do that but hadn't managed to find that reason. Thanks, -424D57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Without an activator to start it, no real way to make it an optional target since it won't disappear. If you do want to give options, I would suggest giving someone the choice of an long or tight shot near a no-shoot versus a closer/easier shot that they have to travel farther to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I would suggest giving someone the choice of an long or tight shot near a no-shoot versus a closer/easier shot that they have to travel farther to make. I really like that idea! So many of the stages I shot are pretty self explanatory: run to here, shoot, reload, run, shoot; it would be nice to have some options on where to take the targets from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro-Pain Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 What about a target with a reeeaaalllyyyy slow activator? They could finish the course without activating target, miss the points/proc. but save time? I like the idea of a Popper far away with 2 no shoots on either side awfully tight... Skip the Popper or risk the no no... Plus at that distance, all they would see is white.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 This reminds me of a question I asked a year or two about a "non scoring target". Would a black hard cover popper that was also an activator for his disappearing target work / be legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Interesting question. I searched the rules for "hard cover" and "activat" and could find nothing that would prohibit this. Normally any target that is intended to be shot is also a scoring target, though. That does also bring up the possibility of having to shoot a string to activate a target..that could make things tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 This reminds me of a question I asked a year or two about a "non scoring target". Would a black hard cover popper that was also an activator for his disappearing target work / be legal? I think you could make that work as long as it was pushed over not shot at. you can have the WSB say you have to push the popper over. on the idea of making the targets optional with some form of activator, remember that if a shooter fails to activate a disappearing target they will receive the applicable misses and FTE's for that target. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Instead of an Optional Target, what about a target with Options? The same target visible from multiple places, with different levels of difficulty. Tight, tough, long shots from point A or open, close shots from point B. The decision then becomes is the time to get to point B (assuming no other targets) or the risk from Point A better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Instead of an Optional Target, what about a target with Options? The same target visible from multiple places, with different levels of difficulty. Tight, tough, long shots from point A or open, close shots from point B. The decision then becomes is the time to get to point B (assuming no other targets) or the risk from Point A better? This is exactly what I did a match or so ago...see stage...optional target is left rear of stage. You can see/shoot it from front area or travel downrange and move left to shoot it. Bay4_YourOption.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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