Help! Multiple gun problems

[MikeFoley]

It happened again today on the first stage at another real close target array. I immedately went to the safe area and put a 15# spring in the gun. The 14# had been there since December, and had around 5K on it. The gun felt considerably quicker on the next stage in its timing. Thanks Clyde for the spring. I now believe these things need to be changed every now and then. I run heavy springs in my singlestack, and my Edge felt more like the singlestack after that.

[MikeFoley]

Upon inspection and comparison to a new spring, the old spring had compressed one coil, ot about 1/4 of an inch. Keeping the 15# for now.

[MikeFoley]

I know some of you are getting tired of this thread, but it happened again today, and I cannot go to Nationals with this issue again. Same scenario, first target in stage, arms length. This time, Vikings501 said something that got me to thinking about one thing that adds to the tolerance stacking phenomenon. He was there the last three times it happened, so he got to see the common denominators:

First target in stage, arms length distance, 20+1 in the gun, half notch after first shot. His idea: With mags loaded to 20, more pressure on slide slowing it down for the first shot. That makes sense. When the problem was at its worst last year, I could do it with as few as 6 rounds in a mag, but after 6 months without a hitch, it has only reappeared at the first round, close target, 20+1 rounds loaded. If all I need to do is avoid fast shots with 20 rounds in the mag, then hopefully I can do that by not loading 20 to start with. I had a good sight alignment to take the shot, honest. Slowing down just a bit will work too, but that is so hard to force when you are 3 feet away.

[MikeFoley]

Progressively worse today, 3 of 4 stages had the issue at varying length targets. This is totally hosing my times, period. It is also throwing my stage planning in the can too since I usually lose a round every time I rack the slide. Today it was done with various round counts in the mags, shooting holes in the magspring pressure theory a little.

I have considered trying to get my Nats slot changed to Production, or change platforms altogether. I would just try another gun, but there have been several that I have done this with.

I am going to guage the trigger later when I recover from heat and dehydration, because it feels different somehow. I just want to be able to finish a stage, and this will totally ruin my Nationals, period.

Frustrated more than ever, but getting better at it. So far, no gunsmith, parts, or technique have been viable since I have done this or seen it with the guns of others recommended in this thread. I would welcome a gun that just does it once in a while, that is how sad this is getting. The only stock parts left in the gun are the slide barrel and frame, seriously.

Someone has to be able to make this platform not do this, but I cannot ship myself to them with the gun, and most of them cannot duplicate it, most people cannot duplicate it. I would guess that a lot of hammer follow is related to this, but most guys rack it and never think about it again.

I am not in love with the gun, and I could probably find the funds to upgrade, but I am so sure this will not stop this, that I fear wasting a couple of thousand bucks.

[SmittyFL]

Fo,

I've had pretty good luck since I took out the RM. It's happened a couple times but only a couple, and I changed the recoil spring after just a few thousand rounds and that seemed to help. I guess I'll just change it on a regular basis.

My next plan of attack until this worked was going to be lightening the slide. Why don't you try that. It don't have to be pretty, just cut some holes in the bugger.

Were you running the Brazos trigger group? What weight pull are you running? Is there a chance the sear/hook could have gone away a bit or maybe your sear spring lightened up on you.

[diehli]

Hrm... heavier/new main and sear springs? Polish the shite out of the disconnector surface where it meets the trigger and sear spring?

[hoodhazard]

You know,eventually some real sharp gunsmith/machinist/shooter is gonna figure this out.There are far more precise machines out there requiring tighter tolerances and doing a lot more mechanically than a pistols lockwork.I ain't he.Come on guys!

[benny hill]

Send it to a good smith, let him bullet proff it, & get used to the way it is set up. A 15# spring sounds to heavy .

[dshooter3]

i AM NOT A GUN SMITH SO MY TERS AMY BE A LITTLE OFF! I was haveing a problem with the hammer following only when I fired weak hand, nobody else had this problem with my open gun. What my gunsmith found was the three fingered spring ( I thing it is the main spring) was shifting in the fram and not putting the proper tension on the hammer. This was a mystery for a long time.

[MikeFoley]

Were you running the Brazos trigger group? What weight pull are you running? Is there a chance the sear/hook could have gone away a bit or maybe your sear spring lightened up on you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes. 2.5 lbs.(no change BTW). I just guaged it at 2.5, but it feels smoother thatn before.

[MikeFoley]

Send it to a good smith, let him bullet proff it, & get used to the way it is set up. A 15# spring sounds to heavy .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PM sent.

[GuildSF4]

This may be a little late, however presuming that you tried all of the smithing (other than lightening slide and new grip). To speed up the slide you can also use a Sprinco and a commander lenght spring. (Lightening the slide would help also)

[MikeFoley]

Just back from the range. I had put two shokbuffs like someone recommended. I could not make it malfunction through 50 rounds of fast doubles, but the muzzle flip and fatigue to my hands was like shooting a magnum 50 times. Then I tried a little distance, and the 15 yard shots pulled the muzzle off the target and into the sky. I am guessing that 15 pound spring and two buffs is way too much, so I am thinking about taking one buff out, or using a lighter spring. Any ideas on springs and buffs to shorten the stroke and keep recoil manageable?

BTW, I had a Glock 22 with me, and I put a couple of rounds through it, and the recoil was a lot lighter than the STI with the currents setup.

[GuildSF4]

I would suggest a 10 - 12 # spring, you may also want to try commander lenght springs in that range, (shortening the goverment springs wears them out quicker), and you probalby don't want a goverment size spring with 2 buffs.

[MikeFoley]

I would suggest a 10 - 12 # spring, you may also want to try commander lenght springs in that range, (shortening the goverment springs wears them out quicker), and you probalby don't want a goverment size spring with 2 buffs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, I was thinking I had heard 11 or 12. For the weekend, I will be running one buff and either the 14 or the 15 unless I can pick-up a spring tomorrow.

[mcoliver]

Double buff? Ditto on the 12# recoil spring advice and I really hope you get that problem fixed.

[cking]

Are sure you not compressing your springs till they reach the solid stack point. Remove recoil spring leave the shock buff in. Move slide all the way to rear. take pencil and make mark on slide and frame. Now put the spring back in and see if the slide comes as far back. If not, then your problem is too long of springs. Plus compressing that much shortens there life. I have to trim most of my recoil springs, and I trim one extra turn off so there is some room for rebound.

When spring goes solid the gun has a different feel than when it stops like it supposed to do.

Just my WAG {wild ass guess}

[MikeFoley]

Are sure you not compressing your springs till they reach the solid stack point. Remove recoil spring leave the shock buff in. Move slide all the way to rear. take pencil and make mark on slide and frame. Now put the spring back in and see if the slide comes as far back. If not, then your problem is too long of springs. Plus compressing that much shortens there life. I have to trim most of my recoil springs, and I trim one extra turn off so there is some room for rebound.

When spring goes solid the gun has a different feel than when it stops like it supposed to do.

Just my WAG {wild ass guess}

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am sure you are correct given the 15 and 2 buffs and the amount of recoil. I am yet to test with one. I will get to shoot it tomorrow in a local match, and hopefully I can shoot it today to see if I want to change anything.

[MikeFoley]

Just back from the range whereI put 70 rounds of fast doubles through the gun with the 15# spring and one buff. No malfunctions, and less recoil than 2 buffs, but still harder recoil than springs alone. After 70 rounds, I could feel my hands and wrists, and that never happened before I tried buffs. Given that I have not cut any springs, I am torn about what to do for tomorrow. The choices are:

1 Live with the additional recoil and see if it is less noticeable one stage at a time.

2 Take out the buff and install the new, longer 14# spring like the one that gave me 6 months of clean living.

3 Leave the buff and change the spring.

4 Cut coils-I hate this one BTW, but realize it may be necessary.

5 Shoot a Glock tomorrow and keep testing outside of the match.

[GuildSF4]

Just back from the range whereI put 70 rounds of fast doubles through the gun with the 15# spring and one buff.  No malfunctions, and less recoil than 2 buffs, but still harder recoil than springs alone.  After 70 rounds, I could feel my hands and wrists, and that never happened before I tried buffs.  Given that I have not cut any springs, I am torn about what to do for tomorrow.  The choices are:

1 Live with the additional recoil and see if it is less noticeable one stage at a time.

2 Take out the buff and install the new, longer 14# spring like the one that gave me 6 months of clean living.

3 Leave the buff and change the spring.

4 Cut coils-I hate this one BTW, but realize it may be necessary.

5 Shoot a Glock tomorrow and keep testing outside of the match.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would try a lighter spring (11 -14 #) spring with 1 or 2 buffs and cut some coils if you don't have any commander lenght springs (springs are cheap), if you can try this before the match all the better.

(And this would give you an idea if the commander lenght would work for you also.)

[MikeFoley]

Went with option #2 (new 14# spring-no buffs) for tomorrow, and if it will work like it did before, I could replace this every 2000 rounds. This feels the smoothest in the full motion of the slide, and it was about 2 coils longer than the 15#, but not as stiff.

[GuildSF4]

Went with option #2 (new 14# spring-no buffs) for tomorrow, and if it will work like it did before, I could replace this every 2000 rounds.  This feels the smoothest in the full motion of the slide, and it was about 2 coils longer than the 15#, but not as stiff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good for you. And you can experiment with others whenever you wish.

[MikeFoley]

UPDATE: Just in from the match where I had "the" malfunction 3 times on the first stage using only a new 14# spring. I immediately (after throwing mags and shouting profanity at my maker) went to the safe area and put a single shock buff behind the same spring. I shot the remainder of the match including some close targets without the malfunction. I reviewed the timer on 3 stages that showed .12 and .13 splits as the fastest ones. I suppose I will continue to try the 14# with one buff until further notice. This combo didn't feel as hot as the 15# did yesterday, but I wonder if that is because it is actually better, or if it was because the other focus a stage provides, or because I was shooting only one stage at a time vs. standing still shooting 30-70.

[GuildSF4]

UPDATE:  Just in from the match where I had "the" malfunction 3 times on the first stage using only a new 14# spring.  I immediately (after throwing mags and shouting profanity at my maker) went to the safe area and put a single shock buff behind the same spring.  I shot the remainder of the match including some close targets without the malfunction.  I reviewed the timer on 3 stages that showed .12 and .13 splits as the fastest ones.  I suppose I will continue to try the 14# with one buff until further notice.  This combo didn't feel as hot as the 15# did yesterday, but I wonder if that is because it is actually better, or if it was because the other focus a stage provides, or because I was shooting only one stage at a time vs. standing still shooting 30-70.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Depending on who makes the spring you are using you may be stacking the spring, maybe not. ISMI springs will stack in most pistols with a buff. I have not seen that happen on Wolff springs.

If you want send me a email and I will send you a 12# commander lenght spring NC.

[MikeFoley]

Thanks for the generous offer, I can pick one up locally, but I appreciate your willingness to help. The spring that most likely stacked was a Wilson 15#, and the one that doesn't seem to is a spring that Shooter's Connection sells as their economy spring, read very inexpensive. He also sells ISMI and others, but this is a low cost spring. I am going to remove the buff and send it to Benny Hill tomorrow to see if he can find anything that may cause this. If not, then I will continue to run the 14# with one buff until I make it malfunction, then try something else. I must say that I have never been as upset in my life as I was today on that first stage, but I got over it quickly.