MikeFoley Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Bear with me while I give you a history of my Limited gun, as I feel it is necessary to get the proper direction. October 2003 I purchased a factory new STI EDGE. I shot it about 3000 rounds, and had it hardchromed. I hand cycled it about 800 times and began shooting it immediately, putting about 1000 rounds a month through it with no malfunctions. In February 2004 I sent it to have the grip reduced and textured, and while the gunsmith (a custom builder with a good reputation) had it, I asked about getting a crisp 2lb trigger job done. He agreed to do so. After realizing that the hammer had been chromed, he suggested a new hammer, sear, and disconnect. I agreed and he put C&S components in it. It was an absolute dream and just got better over the next few months (until I got my A card then it got pissed at me and started breaking). Early this summer, the extractor, which had also been hardchromed broke. I got a new AFTEC and followed the instructions to fit it myself. It worked flawlessly, and still does. About 45-60 days ago I was firing real fast doubles at a close target and found my hammer at the half notch. This started to show up about every 100 rounds, but always while "hammering" out doubles, never with two sight pictures. I attempted to put a little more pressure on the sear by bending my spring a little. After screwing that up a few times (either hard trigger or hammer follow) I put a new SV triglide titanium spring in. My trigger was now 1 7/8 lbs and the following stopped for 400-500 rounds when it occurred again in a match, same scenario, fast shots. I took it this time to a local smith who has built a few guns and repaired thousands. He recut my sear and hammer and I took it out to test it. Within 20 rounds I had the same failure. I took it back to him, and he put the hammer and sear out of his personal SV in it and told me to try that. I did, and this time, I got another one in the first 20 rounds, and a 5 shot burst in the second. I read Rob Leatham's material on long hammer to sear engagement and this same malfunction. My smith, and my shooting buddies cannot produce this in my gun, but I can every time. Consequently, I can't do it with any of their guns. My smith is now telling me to order hammer, sear, and oversize pins (and maybe a trigger). Problem #2 is that my firing pin stop (also hardchromed) cracked in the corner all the way to the hole. I fit a new one myself, filing ever so lightly until it fit, and it has now broken in the same fashion within 1000 rounds. What should I do? I don't mind spending a little money to fix it, but I am really scared about it all happening again in a few thousand rounds. I cannot buy a new custom gun without selling this one, and don't feel right selling this one without fixing it. Any advice besides "begin drinking heavily, throw it away, or keep ten each of all the parts prefitted" would be appreciated. I know someone is going to tell me to send it to BH, but WWBD? Thanks in advance. I will be shooting Area 5 and Nationals with a borrowed gun, so please be gentle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 First off, find a paragraph. Second, send it to a different 'smith... one with a rep and fast turn around. You can read that as Benny Hill if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 How much over travel on your trigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 I sent you an email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 3, 2004 Author Share Posted September 3, 2004 First off, find a paragraph. I rented a paragraph machine, sorry for the run-on, but it was late and I was mentally bankrupt and emotionally exhausted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 3, 2004 Author Share Posted September 3, 2004 How much over travel on your trigger? Not a lot, but I have adjusted the screw both ways with no change in symptom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 couple of options. for the firing pin stop. This is contacting something in a place it should not for it to crack. find out what it is hitting against. Mine was hitting the ejector coming forward that cracked it. The trigger/hammer problem. All new parts start at about 2.5lbs and go from there. I actually start at 3 with everything set so I know angles are right very crisp then polish and adjust some more til I hit just about 2lbs. A sear jig helps set this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoonie Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 I've seen this exact same problem from an Edge that a local GM is using, or should I say trying to use! The gun was hardchromed after purchase, shot for a while, developed problems, and after several changes of trigger groups the situation still exists. It seems to take about 1,000 rounds more or less to start though. What is consistant is that it occurs when the 'hammer' is down (close targets, quick splits, vise-like grip). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tewlman Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 smittyfl, were you at the tn section match? Fomeister and i talked to three guys late one night outside the match hotel and i'm thinking you were one of them. Just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoonie Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 If you mean that guy abusing adult beverages, that was him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Abusing?!?!?!? I didn't spill any!! Yeah that was me. Damn, I wish he would have said something then. I sent him a long email explaining my same problem. We'll have to link up with you guys again at the nats. Good luck fomeister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tewlman Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 yeah, now we figured out what's going on! you boozers just have a death grip on your guns to try and keep from falling over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoonie Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 BUSTED!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 3, 2004 Author Share Posted September 3, 2004 I'm not alone, in addition to SmittyFL, Tewlman also has the problem. I went to his shop today, and we each shot our respective Limited guns and then swapped. Both shooters got both guns to go to half cock and double. Even worse, Tewlman's gun was one of my backups for Area 5 and the Nationals. I have arranged for another gun to use, so the heat is off for now, and I can shoot Production, Revolver, or my single stack after Nats while my gun is being repaired. I am still perplexed. It looks like SmittyFL's idea for a focus group is growing in potential members. I did check out Kingman's theory on the firing pin stop, and what-do-you-know, it will pivot behind the ejector. Shame on me. Someone else will be fitting the next one. Thanks Kingman. How many guns out there can do this, and how many shooters can do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tewlman Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Hello, my name is Steve, and my hammer follows the slide on fast doubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 You need to send your gun to someone who knows what they're doing. I can shoot .12 to .15 splits all the live long day and have never doubled or had hammer follow. So can everybody else. A Benny Hill, Brazos, Kodiak, Clark, etc. all know how to set up a trigger properly. Yeah, I know how to fit guiderods and extractors, etc, but racegun trigger work is usually best left to the professionals. And yes, I realize that's not what you want to hear. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Golly, lots of full auto pistols out there. Just my 2 cents worth. The answer is Benny Hill. 361-241-1091. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Whom ever hardchromed your gun didn't know what they were doing. None of the internal parts should ever get chromed. The hammer, if it was chromed too, should have been masked off so that the hooks remained in the white. As you've changed the hammer/sear, it could be the overtravel on the trigger and/or the sear spring. As for the firing pin stop, get one that is oversized and has radiused corners - so that it has to be fit for your gun and that it won't crack. You need to send your gun to a gunsmith who knows what they are doing - Benny Hill, Brazos, EGW, Clark, etc. If your hammer follows or your gun doubles, no matter how fast your splits are, it is not a natural condition and your gun wasn't put togther properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 4, 2004 Author Share Posted September 4, 2004 Actually, it is what I want to hear. I have been thinking about calling Benny all day. He seems to have more experience with these race blasters than anyone. I talked with him and 12 of his disciples at 3G Nats in Reno. Everyone touts his praises. I am still afraid that new hammer, sear, disconnect, spring, oversize pins, and trigger bow will solve my problem for a few thousand rounds then it will come back. I know that's extreme, but it sucks to lose faith in your gat. On the subject of .12 to .15 splits, I never saw them until recent, but I three .12s and two .13s out of six, all A's once in practice last week. Yes, I finally broke down and did the practice thing this past few weeks. I now know not to get extractor, hammer, and other internals chromed, but it was my first. I shot those plastic guns before, you know the zero maintenance variety. I have secured an unaltered gun for Area 5 and Nationals. I hope that BH will be in Barry next week. I would love to talk to him in person and hand him my blaster and list of what I want, then he can tell me what I need, and inevitably, how bad it is going to hurt. I have always told others "This sport is not for the faint of heart or light of wallet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 foemeister, Send the gun to Benny and it will be fine. My gun was done by Benny and has on the order of 20K on it by now and probably another 50K of dryfire. Zero problems. My trigger components are decidedy uncool: STI hammer with a mystery-meat sear and disconnector. My trigger, unlike 99.999% of triggers has a lot of "creep" in it (which I like). It's the true test of a quality trigger because the "creep" (I hate that word because it makes it sound like a bad thing) is absolutely glass smooth. Most dimestore gunsmiths resort to reducing the sear engagement to the "glass rod" break because they're incapable of prepping the mating surfaces properly. Thus, allowing any creep makes their triggers break over like a bowl of half-soggy cornflakes with some sand mixed in. So, they reduce the engagement, thereby "fixing" the problem, and you're stuck with a POS trigger job that follows and/or doubles soon after. In the end you'll save money just by getting the job done right. A properly done trigger will last many TENS of thousands of rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 4, 2004 Author Share Posted September 4, 2004 The stats speak for themselves. I am calling Benny this week. I would guess no less than 20 guys who have Benny Hill guns have told me the same thing. I under-estimated the things I was hearing because my gun ran back then. Now that I, and others, are having trouble with lesser knowns, I am going to have a little faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Heh... glad you borrowed the machine. Also glad to read what you decided to do. Oh, and I'm running a Benny blaster, too. Good shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 4, 2004 Author Share Posted September 4, 2004 Well I'm just in from the range with my second borrowed gun, and I'm happy to report that I cannot force it to follow. I did have a little trigger freeze, but I feel confident about tomorrows Area 5. At least as confident as a new A- shooter can. This time the borrowed gun is also a hardchromed STI, but with all factory internals that have no modifications. IT breaks around two pounds and has a positive reset. It has about 10000 rounds on it since chrome, and I cleaned it and shot 30 rounds through it for good measure. Thanks to all who posted, and if the thread lives for while, I'll update you on what happens with my blaster in the weeks to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 If I were you and I can talk to Mr. Benny Hill, I'd probably beg him to look over all the parts I've bought and see if some can still be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 5, 2004 Author Share Posted September 5, 2004 I was hoping he would consider that. I don't mind getting all new stuff if that's what he recommends, but I hope it is not necessay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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