Rifle cleaning and lube

[Shadow1]

So now that I've made the plunge into purchasing a rifle. Of course I had to take it apart. I've been watching a lot of Youtube videos and I'm seeing a lot of mixed info on lubing. One guy who I found very informative said the only thing that needs to be lubed are the contact points on the carrier. It seems to me that I would want to at least lube the bolt. I know it's a rookie question but...I'm a rifle rookie. Thanks

[a.roberts]

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?1606-AR15-LUBE-POINTS

[Shadow1]

Awesome! Cheers

[DaveTimm]

With ARs I like using a good lube, no grease, and generally run mine pretty wet. Its well known a dirty wet gun will run better then a clean dry gun. Most of the malfunctions I see at classes or matches are from dry guns. Once they are lubed they run great.

On area to point that if you cant field strip you can still do an effective lube job.

Pull charging handle back, lock bolt and lub charging handle and what bearing surfaces you can see through ejection port.

Let bolt ride forward a Little and then lube bolt head lugs and drop or two down on gas tube.

Close bolt, then pull back slightly until you see the gas rings in the exhaust ports. lube there.

Kinda my down and dirty quick lube job. When doing a more detailed lube dont forget to lube your FCG. Ive also seen dry lowers fail to reset etc.

Dave

[michael1778]

I've come across Froglube products and have been pleased so far this autumn. Before I was using Mobil 1 and Synthetic automatic transmission fluid. Froglube paste (taking the role of grease), CLP liquid (for oil/lube), and now I have their solvent on order.

I can attest to dry ARs having bad days. I got my BCGs mixed up from one rifle to another and went to a competition with a nearly dry gun. Didn't notice until the damn "moon dust" they had everywhere got in the action a little. Locked me right up on a rifle heavy stage.....very early. I took a huge beating on my score that stage. Bring some lubricant with you in your rifle bag. Fortunately, I could recover from the mistake and enjoy the rest of the match with a smoothly running rifle.

Froglube cleans up easily, is non-toxic, and smells nice.

[MarkCO]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=153580&hl= lubrication&st=0

[Alaskapopo]

So now that I've made the plunge into purchasing a rifle. Of course I had to take it apart. I've been watching a lot of Youtube videos and I'm seeing a lot of mixed info on lubing. One guy who I found very informative said the only thing that needs to be lubed are the contact points on the carrier. It seems to me that I would want to at least lube the bolt. I know it's a rookie question but...I'm a rifle rookie. Thanks

With AR's you can't have them too wet your first shot will blow any excess lube out of the gun. Seriously these guns run a lot better wet than dry. I use 5W30 motor oil on the bolt, bolt carrier every part gets oil all over it.

Pat

[Sgtsvi]

I have had great results from M pro 7 for the past 2 years. It's good stuff and doesn't burn off when guns get really hot.

[larry weeks]

An AR that runs 20 to 40 rounds over a couple of minutes, outside in the dirt, may work fine with a different regimen, I'm going to relate what we found when testing M4s and M16s for our (Brownells) magazine contract. Minimum oil was better - at least for full auto fire, from a covered building. When we first started the tests, I saw them hose Break Free into the port while the gun was running. What they found was, excess oil gets into the magazine and onto the rounds. They carry it into the chamber, it turns to carbon, and causes both chambering and extraction problems. We got the guns really hot - 6 to 7 magazines as fast as possible (the gas tube glows in the 3rd mag). We put one drop on each carrier rail and one on the bolt ring - not the gas rings - the shiney ring closer to the lugs. That was it! After each 6-7 magazine stint in the fixture, the gun was removed and stood in the rack to cool. Once cooled, one drop was put on the visible carrier rail and one drop went into the bolt/carrier "junction". Last I knew they were using Militec. I do the same thing but generally use Mobil 1 and have not had an AR problem since, but then I didn't have any before with heavier lube, but never dripping.

[DaveTimm]

Larry,

When you say they hosed clp into the port while running, do you mean literally? I'm just picturing one guy shooting and another guy to the side spraying CLP in the ejection port and bolt area. If thats the cass, I guess other then as a test was there any other reasons for doing so. It wouldn't seem practical to lube while firing in any real or training world scenario so I'm just trying to understand the hosing part. Was it to prove a failure point or was it part of the contract testing? I go to a few 2000 plus round count carbine courses every year and generally lube pretty heavily,including dripping oil into the mags and never had a problem with carbon. Granted I avoid break free but I wonder if the temps or brand lube are factors. In classes we don't do glowing hot mag dumps but 6 mags in less then 10 min can be common. They get hot, not sure how hot but hot.

Thanks and I look forward to hearing more if you can elaborate. I'm interested in learning more about this testing process.

[twodownzero]

None of my ARs require any more lube than the link above shows. In the army, we used to get a shot of CLP through the ejection port and onto the BCG before we walked out onto the range, but in my opinion, the AR-15 system does not need that much lubrication and it attracts dirt and causes problems.

I have never had an issue when using quality magazines and lubing per the instructions given in the link above.

[RANGER3BN]

Run it wet.

[larry weeks]

Bluepythons, that's exactly what they did, one on the trigger, one on the spray can of Break Free (gun is mounted in a fixture). It was below zero that day so i didn't hang around long - don't know if that was the only time they did that, or if they kept it up all day. It was early in our learning curve and I think they were trying different things. I don't know how long they did that before figuring it out. I only went out a few times. Every stoppage requires a full investigation by a military representative to make sure it isn't a mag problem - if it is, you have to destroy the entire lot. We never had to destroy a lot of mags, whew! Once they found out the extra lube was causing stoppages, they got away from it and used less and less as time went on. The gentleman who was in charge at the time is no longer here so I can't ask him why he thought that was a good idea. Gas systems don't generally like oil. Those guns take a beating and, unless a broken lug gets caught in something, will keep running when they should quit.

[ShooterSteve]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't consider "running it wet" and standing there squirting fluid into it while it is going full auto, as quite the same thing.

[DaveTimm]

I agree and am still a firm believer of ARs being run wet. Excessive spraying or lube is not needed either. With running the bcg wet I've had some drip to the mags as evident by lube on empty ones but never had the problem described above.

[PursuitSS]

Pat Rogers believes in running them "wet", please click and read the tale of "Filthy 14"

http://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/

The last round count I could find was a YEAR ago and was over 50,000 rounds!

Edited December 1, 2012 by PursuitSS

[Shadow1]

Great info all. I appreciate your welcoming a newbie into the 3G world.

[Alaskapopo]

An AR that runs 20 to 40 rounds over a couple of minutes, outside in the dirt, may work fine with a different regimen, I'm going to relate what we found when testing M4s and M16s for our (Brownells) magazine contract. Minimum oil was better - at least for full auto fire, from a covered building. When we first started the tests, I saw them hose Break Free into the port while the gun was running. What they found was, excess oil gets into the magazine and onto the rounds. They carry it into the chamber, it turns to carbon, and causes both chambering and extraction problems. We got the guns really hot - 6 to 7 magazines as fast as possible (the gas tube glows in the 3rd mag). We put one drop on each carrier rail and one on the bolt ring - not the gas rings - the shiney ring closer to the lugs. That was it! After each 6-7 magazine stint in the fixture, the gun was removed and stood in the rack to cool. Once cooled, one drop was put on the visible carrier rail and one drop went into the bolt/carrier "junction". Last I knew they were using Militec. I do the same thing but generally use Mobil 1 and have not had an AR problem since, but then I didn't have any before with heavier lube, but never dripping.

With respect I have found the opposite to be true as has the military in dust chamber testings. The guns run wet did far better than the guns ran dry or with minimal oil. The oil does not turn into carbon rather it suspends the carbon fouling that is being pumped into the gun in a sludge type substance. So long as you keep it wet the sludge is moveable and the gun runs. When it gets dry it turns hard and the gun does not run. Another problem with using too little oil is it burns off much faster.

Pat

Edited December 1, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[landshark45]

An AR that runs 20 to 40 rounds over a couple of minutes, outside in the dirt, may work fine with a different regimen, I'm going to relate what we found when testing M4s and M16s for our (Brownells) magazine contract. Minimum oil was better - at least for full auto fire, from a covered building. When we first started the tests, I saw them hose Break Free into the port while the gun was running. What they found was, excess oil gets into the magazine and onto the rounds. They carry it into the chamber, it turns to carbon, and causes both chambering and extraction problems. We got the guns really hot - 6 to 7 magazines as fast as possible (the gas tube glows in the 3rd mag). We put one drop on each carrier rail and one on the bolt ring - not the gas rings - the shiney ring closer to the lugs. That was it! After each 6-7 magazine stint in the fixture, the gun was removed and stood in the rack to cool. Once cooled, one drop was put on the visible carrier rail and one drop went into the bolt/carrier "junction". Last I knew they were using Militec. I do the same thing but generally use Mobil 1 and have not had an AR problem since, but then I didn't have any before with heavier lube, but never dripping.

With respect I have found the opposite to be true as has the military in dust chamber testings. The guns run wet did far better than the guns ran dry or with minimal oil. The oil does not turn into carbon rather it suspends the carbon fouling that is being pumped into the gun in a slug type substance. So long as you keep it wet the sludge is moveable and the run runds. When it gets dry it turns hard and the gun does not run. Another problem with using too little oil is it burns off much faster.

Pat

Wet has in my experience worked much better. Carbon is def suspended in the oil and very pronounced when running a can.

Look at Popo's post he describes it perfectly.

Also this is another reason to choose oils that wont cook off in high heat.

Edited December 1, 2012 by landshark45

[Alaskapopo]

Agreed I like motor oil because I have found it does not cook off as fast as most of the gun oils I have tried.

Pat

[DaveTimm]

This is another reason to avoid grease in DI ARs. I have had a few on my bench brought to me that don't run. When I get them apart I see this sludge like stuff and every time the user has thought grease would be better then lube. The problem is the suspended crap in the grease that either turns to an abrasive compound or turns to sticky sludge. A little grease on the cam pin track is ok but all else I recommend a quality oil. Piston guns may get away with grease as there is less exhaust in the bCG area but I still use lube.

I currently use Slip EWL but just picked up a quart of Mobil 1 5w30 that was on sale. I can tell you I like the price better already. I haven't tried mobil1 but I know a lot of guys use it on their rifles and pistols with no issues. Mobil 1 also doesn't appear to have some of the bad detergents that other brands do but that's just based of initial Internet research. I'm not a chemist so don't take that for fact. If anyone has done some research or has any experience with the motor oil I'm open to learn. If you think about the basics, metal on metal, cylinder objects etc motor oil makes sense. I just don't want to find extractor o ring eaten away etc.

[PursuitSS]

This is another reason to avoid grease in DI ARs. I have had a few on my bench brought to me that don't run. When I get them apart I see this sludge like stuff and every time the user has thought grease would be better then lube. The problem is the suspended crap in the grease that either turns to an abrasive compound or turns to sticky sludge. A little grease on the cam pin track is ok but all else I recommend a quality oil. Piston guns may get away with grease as there is less exhaust in the bCG area but I still use lube.

I currently use Slip EWL but just picked up a quart of Mobil 1 5w30 that was on sale. I can tell you I like the price better already. I haven't tried mobil1 but I know a lot of guys use it on their rifles and pistols with no issues. Mobil 1 also doesn't appear to have some of the bad detergents that other brands do but that's just based of initial Internet research. I'm not a chemist so don't take that for fact. If anyone has done some research or has any experience with the motor oil I'm open to learn. If you think about the basics, metal on metal, cylinder objects etc motor oil makes sense. I just don't want to find extractor o ring eaten away etc.

I also have ran Slip EWL and I'm currently using Mobil 1 0w40, if you read up on engine oils, the 0w40 will run in lower temps without getting "thicker" and will also work and protect better in higher temps.

Got it at Autozone.

[DaveTimm]

Thanks for the info. 5w30 was on sale at the local man mall. Is 0w40 comparable in thickness to EWL?

[MarkCO]

Dang it!

Oils have ONE viscosity for a given temperature, period. The rate of change due to temperature can be altered, but with a trade off. If it is 0F or 100F, the viscosity is determined by operating temperature of the oil. For our purposes, you can add the two numbers and multiply by .4 for an effective viscoity. Oils with wide ranges, 0w40 for instance, have shorter molecular chains and are not as good at suspension as a straight weight oil. With synthetics, the rating is an approximation, but they have longer chains and thus suspend better in general. Straight weight oils have longer chains and thus suspend better as well. An 0w40, at engine operating temps tests out at about a 30 weight oil. A 10w30 tests out at about a 25 weight oil. A 20w50 tests out at about a 40 weight oil. At room temp, they are usually about 5 points above the rating. While Mobil 1 is a good oil, Royal Purple makes straight weight racing oils that are better for firearms.

A good synthetic grease will suspend a higher volume of particulates than an equal amount of syhthetic oil. I use slide Glide on the bolt carrier rails, slide rails and cam pin and oil everywhere else.

Yes, I worked in an oil testing lab for 3 years and yes I did graduate level course and research work in Tribology. Yes, I tried Froglube, no I don't use it. Yes, Pennzoil and Quaker State are crappy oils.

[Sleepswithdogs]

Dang it!

Oils have ONE viscosity for a given temperature, period. The rate of change due to temperature can be altered, but with a trade off. If it is 0F or 100F, the viscosity is determined by operating temperature of the oil. For our purposes, you can add the two numbers and multiply by .4 for an effective viscoity. Oils with wide ranges, 0w40 for instance, have shorter molecular chains and are not as good at suspension as a straight weight oil. With synthetics, the rating is an approximation, but they have longer chains and thus suspend better in general. Straight weight oils have longer chains and thus suspend better as well. An 0w40, at engine operating temps tests out at about a 30 weight oil. A 10w30 tests out at about a 25 weight oil. A 20w50 tests out at about a 40 weight oil. At room temp, they are usually about 5 points above the rating. While Mobil 1 is a good oil, Royal Purple makes straight weight racing oils that are better for firearms.

A good synthetic grease will suspend a higher volume of particulates than an equal amount of synthetic oil. I use slide Glide on the bolt carrier rails, slide rails and cam pin and oil everywhere else.

Yes, I worked in an oil testing lab for 3 years and yes I did graduate level course and research work in Tribology. Yes, I tried Froglube, no I don't use it. Yes, Pennzoil and Quaker State are crappy oils.

When I was doing some research into oils for my new AR I came to the same conclusions you have posted MarkCO. I ended up using a small amount of synthetic grease on the bolt carrier rail, etc and tried really hard to find Royal Purple Racing oil for the remainder, but couldn't find it locally and didn't want to pay shipping that was close to the price of the oil. Anyone know where to find any on the north side of Dallas?? I ended up using Castrol Edge Titanium 10-30 and like it so far, but would love to find some Royal Purple Racing straight weight somewhere.

Oh, also thought the Royal Purple Racing Marine oil looked very interesting because of it's stronger anti-rusting properties, and would love to give it a try, but had the same trouble finding it locally.

Tar

Edited December 2, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs