66L Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 At a USPSA format steel shoot this weekend I was discussing how to run a particular stage with a friend of mine. As a right handed shooter I typically engage targets in a left to right order. He suggested shooting from right to left, that way his body's momentum was leaning towards the right, setting him up to move to the next shooting box, which was to the right. I have timed myself shooting plates left to right, and then right to left, but don't see any real difference on the timer. So my question is about the idea of momentum, or body positioning, aiding in lateral movement. Do you think shooting targets in a particular direction would affect which way you need to move next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herky Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I think that most people shoot left to right because that is the way we read. To me it is easier to see the next target when shooting right to left, I am right handed and right eye dominate. Never considered the movement to the next shooting area as a reason. Try both and see which one seems to work the best for you. This is a case of either way being "right". This advise is worth exactly what you pay for it. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger10k Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I'd certainly rather be pointed in the direction I want to go, as opposed to the opposite direction, so I agree with your friend on that one. Try some wide transitions with moving box to box (transition to left then go right, as opposed to transitioning right then going right), and see how that goes. I bet you'll see a bit of difference on the timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Yes and No. If you can enter or exit a shooting position sooner by engaging targets in a specific direction then it makes sense to use the target engagement order that promotes being able to start shooting sooner. Now if you have targets in a shooting position that are not exposed any sooner or later, basically getting there shooting then leaving, its usually best to start with the easiest target to shoot in the array and sweep towards the direction of the remaining targets. If all of the targets in the shooting position are essentially the same shot difficulty then it makes no difference if you shoot them one direction or the other. In these scenario's I usually tell people to shoot the array in their preferred sweeping direction. As far as physically exiting the shooting position that has more to do with your foot placement in the shooting position verses which direction you are sweeping across the targets while engaging them. If you can eliminate shuffle steps as you exit the shooting position and use a wide stance that keeps you from shuffling your feet while in the shooting position that will usually produce the most efficient shooting platform as well as exiting platform. When I break down stages I look for key foot placement locations which will allow me to shoot in the position from a single stance and also allow me to launch out of the shooting position with a solid push of my trailing leg. His are the cliff notes, pick a target engagement order which allows you to start shooting as soon as possible as you enter the shooting position. Pick a foot placement location which allows you to shoot the whole target array without shuffling your feet and also allows you to launch out of the shooting position aggressively with a single big push of the trailing leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66L Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 My mind being as simple as it is, I have a hard time looking at stages with an eye that critical. The approach of "single big push of the trailing leg" to get me out of the box and onto the next one is a simple concept that I can use. I can't fault my friend though, he cleaned up on that stage, so whatever he was trying to suggest to me worked well for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 It seems like when I go to local matches most of the new shooters like to shoot left to right , maybe because that is how the read? But the Problem is alot of them will go out of the way on an array just so they can shoot left to right. It is important to practice both and be able to do both. If it doesn't matter because its a speed shoot or something striaight forward then I perfer right to left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroe3 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Most right handed shooters prefer to move left to right because the gun is pointed safely down range during movement and reloads. Movement left to right will naturally lead to target acquisition in that order also unless the stage is set up otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGER3BN Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) Most right handed shooters prefer to move left to right because the gun is pointed safely down range during movement and reloads. Movement left to right will naturally lead to target acquisition in that order also unless the stage is set up otherwise. Can you elaborate? If you shoot with both eyes open, a right-handed, right eye dominant shooter be able to acquire their target quicker and more naturally shooting from right to left. Edited November 29, 2012 by RANGER3BN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66L Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 I think I get what sroe3 means. If you have shooting positions in a lateral line and move left to right, the first target you get to in the next position will be on the left. But ideally you will be able to see all of the targets at once and be able to choose which one you engage first. This is where my question came in about shooting targets in a specific order to facilitate moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Do you think shooting targets in a particular direction would affect which way you need to move next? Absolutely. I pick my shooting order (within and array of targets) based on a number of things, but entering and exiting the position is of primary importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66L Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 Do you think shooting targets in a particular direction would affect which way you need to move next? Absolutely. I pick my shooting order (within and array of targets) based on a number of things, but entering and exiting the position is of primary importance. On a simplistic stage with basic movement between boxes from left to right, would you prefer to shoot the targets right to left or left to right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 If there is not an advantage to engaging a specific target first or last as you enter/exit a shooting position then its usually best to shoot the array in your "Preferred" transition/shooting direction. Everyone has a preferred target to target transition direction. For example, most right handed shooters prefer to shoot from Left to Right. Personally, I prefer to shoot Right to Left and I am a right handed shooter. If there isn't an advantage to shooting a target array in a specific direction due to shooting position entering/exiting I will usually shoot the array from Right to Left. But this is usually rare because there is almost always some way to optimize the stage plan by engaging targets in a specific order that will allow me to start shooting sooner or start exiting the shooting position sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Don't worry so much about the direction of the shooting. Do worry about breaking down a stage in a way that allows you to start shooting as soon as possible and move through the stage as soon as possible. That is far more important than worrying about which direction of shooting is more important than the other when you are standing and shooting at targets of the same difficulty, like a plate rack or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Do you think shooting targets in a particular direction would affect which way you need to move next? Absolutely. I pick my shooting order (within and array of targets) based on a number of things, but entering and exiting the position is of primary importance. On a simplistic stage with basic movement between boxes from left to right, would you prefer to shoot the targets right to left or left to right? in the simplest version of a stage like you describe with 2 shooting boxes, I would probably go Left to Right in the left hand box so my body is pointed towards the right box when I finish the first array and then shoot Right to Left in the second box because I will be facing that way when I get there. But even your simple 2 box stage requires a number of questions to decide on the right answer for you like,can I choose which box to start in? will shooting one side first leave me facing in a better position to get to the next box? do I need to reload between boxes? where will my gun be pointing during a reload? can I draw to a target on my gun side? is there a target easier to take quickly as I get there? can I take one as I am leaving? how far am I moving? how difficult is each target? once you know all the answers you can decide on the best answer for YOU on that stage. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Yes and No. If you can enter or exit a shooting position sooner by engaging targets in a specific direction then it makes sense to use the target engagement order that promotes being able to start shooting sooner. Now if you have targets in a shooting position that are not exposed any sooner or later, basically getting there shooting then leaving, its usually best to start with the easiest target to shoot in the array and sweep towards the direction of the remaining targets. If all of the targets in the shooting position are essentially the same shot difficulty then it makes no difference if you shoot them one direction or the other. In these scenario's I usually tell people to shoot the array in their preferred sweeping direction. As far as physically exiting the shooting position that has more to do with your foot placement in the shooting position verses which direction you are sweeping across the targets while engaging them. If you can eliminate shuffle steps as you exit the shooting position and use a wide stance that keeps you from shuffling your feet while in the shooting position that will usually produce the most efficient shooting platform as well as exiting platform. When I break down stages I look for key foot placement locations which will allow me to shoot in the position from a single stance and also allow me to launch out of the shooting position with a solid push of my trailing leg. His are the cliff notes, pick a target engagement order which allows you to start shooting as soon as possible as you enter the shooting position. Pick a foot placement location which allows you to shoot the whole target array without shuffling your feet and also allows you to launch out of the shooting position aggressively with a single big push of the trailing leg. This guy knows what he's talking about. It's refreshing to see someone else who thinks about things so critically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scootertheshooter Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I thinks righties tend to shoot left to right and lefties the opposite . Being a left handed shooter I find its more comfortable to open up my stance when shooting right to left. The other way it seems to close by going across my body. If you know what I mean,heck I wrote it and I'm confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroe3 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I shot a stage last month that came to mind when this topic came up. There were 3 arrays, located left, center and right and divided by walls. Shooters moved across the shooting area and engaged the arrays as visible. One right handed and one left handed shooter moved right to left. The rest all moved left to right. The center array was an unobstructed plate rack. Every shooter shot the plates in the same direction they were moving. Some took a shooting position, others shot on the move. I wanted my eyes and my gun moving toward the next array or shooting position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Cha-lee (as usual) is spot on. Everyone likes to focus on faster draws, faster splits, etc when the actual way to shoot a stage 'fast' is to focus on your movement skills like transitions, that's where the real money is to be made. If you still are having trouble understanding the critical importance of movement skills take a look at the draw and split times of the top shooters - they are all about the same. The difference is who can move through the stage the quickest which translates into those movement skills ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshoxx Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Left to right seems more natural and as a right hand shooter it seems to be the way i see most peeps go. Not sure of the logic besides the obvious moving reloads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I put this on the timer once and ran 10 or 15 iterations. Shooting "against" the direction of travel cost me .5 seconds nearly every time. As for engagement, there are a few factors. 1. First, you're usually going to be moving in a consistent direction, more or less. This will naturally present the correct target first. for example, if you're moving right-to-left then as you approach the port/door/position you'll naturally be presented the leftmost target first. Interestingly this runs opposite of what semiauto shooters generally desire due to reload safety on the 180, righties that are majority right-eye dominant typically want to move left-to-right, which makes them shoot right-to-left in many positions. As a cross-dominant revolver guy whose reload stays centered, I can move either direction with equal safety, but I will generally go for right-to-left movement because it lets each new target come into my strong eye. 2. Second, it don't mean a thing if you ain't got that . . . crouch. If you're shooting standing tall then you have to wait for gravity to drop you far enough for your pushoff leg to get traction. Likewise if you're in a crouch but your transitions have leaned you so far over that your trailing leg is straight, you have to reposition that foot before you can use it to push off. The best finishing position is having your weight towards the next position, centered roughly over that foot, crouched low enough that you have some bend in the other leg. When you break the last shot pick up your front foot and push off with the rear, that's the fastest you can start moving from a stop. Matt "crazy legs" Griffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroe3 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) This thread made me a little self conscious of my "directional" shooting last month. I am right hand/eye dominate. A few things I learned about myself: When shooting steel challenge type stages with no movement I'll usually shoot right to left. When shooting USPSA matches with movement, the order of engagement is always dependent on my stage plan, where I'm coming from and planning to go, reloads, etc., rather than right to left. When no advantage seems to be gained I'll shoot an open target or near target first (double action first shot pistol). Edited December 31, 2012 by sroe3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeg1005 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Pick you order based on what you have to do after you engage the targets... which it typically move. So I always enter/shoot an array in the direction that will let me begin moving as I'm engaging targets. And if I can't actually start moving, I want to be pointed in the direction that I have to move, so no shift of weight is needed to start moving. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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