12bar Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Pros and Coms? For those that have any issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aheadofthecurve Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 dont need to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 My 26" will already cycle 2.5dram, extra light target loads. 2.75drams will run all day long. Also my shotgun stays really flat, so the weight of the BCG doesn't seem to have much impact on muzzle manors. Honestly, I just can't produce a good reason to mess with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1911 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 It's done for lighter loads and a faster cyclic rate, but if you're shooting fast enough to outrun the bolt, your just spraying and praying. It's not really necessary to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caz41 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Hit up Benny or Mike about why they do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 It should not be lightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I have heard this from a few people. Mick It should not be lightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrody Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I had Triangle Shooting Sports Lighten, Flute and Cut my bolt while doing the other lifter/carrier work because it was recommended by them. All I can say is that the shotgun runs very smooth (better than when stock) and that I have had zero issues. Previously, I had some hang ups with Target loads when stock. I am not one to work on the shotgun myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 It's done for lighter loads and a faster cyclic rate, but if you're shooting fast enough to outrun the bolt, your just spraying and praying. It's not really necessary to do. Matt, Kurt Miller told me that the bolt lightening is done to reduce reciprocating mass. Just like we do on Open pistols and Limited pistol. It was implied that it could be detrimental to running lighter loads. Both, the Benelli M2 and the Versa Max that inhabit space in my safe, have stock bolt carriers. No problems with either gun, and the Versa Max has run from the first shell loaded into it. Of course, things learned from the Benelli benefitted the Remington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willz Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I'm picking up my Versa Max today. I'll shoot it a bit and it going to Benny Hill next week to get massaged. I plan on calling and asking their take on bolt lightening for the Versa Max. If it's not needed I my opt to not have that done. I'd like to hear it from them before I decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Bird Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Benny Hill did my complete Versa Max. Yes we also lightened the bolt. Benny is not much of a guy that just does random stuff to a gun. He has been in business way to long and has one of the best reputations around. He has made the Beneli 3 Gun Model for them, and did tons of work on the VM 3 gun project. All that said, my VM has shot a little over 800 rounds so far from light loads to slugs. Have never had 1 single problem. JMHO Benny is the bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpipe95 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Does not need it and should not be done. It's not an inertia gun, and can already run sub loads out of the box. The gun already has one of the fastest bolt speeds, reducing mass and speeding it up is not going to help longevity or reliability. I will throw this warning out there. When rem durability rests guns they use lots of "prairie storm" that stuff beats the ever loving hell out of the system as all the ports are open and it's super hot. Stock versa's don't even like it much, and excess amounts should be avoided if you have a lightened carrier. Edited March 22, 2014 by bpipe95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpipe95 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 and did tons of work on the VM 3 gun project. : Triangle is a great shop, and they have a very good reputation within the community. I personally look up to guys like Benny for all the work and features that they created and innovated are pretty awesome. However if you are talking about the new green versamax tactical 3 gun the statement above is not true. It's pretty obvious If you search and read the many vm3 threads where Benny and sons belittle the new factory offering repeatedly.... That said the new vm3 was really designed by shooters for shooters and is the most complete out if the box 3 gun offering and still leaves meat on the bone for shops like triangle that offer enhancements that can personalize a gun specifically for a shooter. Happy shooting, they are great guns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 ^Agree^ Bolt lightening on the VM is not needed, and really should not be done. If you just have to have it for the aesthetics, take off as little metal as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadleyOwens Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 One would think that by taking off 2oz. of weight in a reciprocating part that felt recoil would be mitigated slightly. It does reduce recoil, while not making a giant difference in recoil it can still be felt. If the action cycles as fast and has hard as you guys are saying the amount of weight lost would benefit longevity of the receiver and bolt face/lock. A heavier hammer always does more damage than a lighter one. I lighten the bolt on every vmax I build. I used to just lighten them and recoat but, I've realized its a nice little place for my logo as well !! I'm sure that remingtons engineers have a better database to pull from than me but, my guess as to why they leave the bolt so heavy is to maybe slow down on unlock time and give the gas system a touch more dwell. Either way a Vmax will cycle anything with a lightened bolt....all day every day. Hadley O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhill Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Very well put. Agree completely. Ive yet to hear of a VM or M2 having a problem because of a lightened bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 So Hadley does not really know and Derek completely agrees. Sounds about right... They will certainly cycle with a lightened bolt. But here is a hint, since you both admitted you don't know...take a look at the face of a hammer on a VM with a lightened bolt and compare it directly with a stock weight one that has the same round count. The people that understand the design are saying don't do it not to deprive the Hills and Crucible from making some extra scratch, but because it actually should not be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhill Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Never stated i didnt know. I stated that i agree that lightening the bolt will reduce weight, felt recoil, increase cycling rate. As far as the hammer is concerned, ive seen problems with them with both lightened and unlightened bolts. Your opinion is that it should not be done and I respect what you think, i just happen to disagree. It doesnt make either of us wrong. Have a nice night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadleyOwens Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Whoa man ... Extra scratch ? That was a low blow man....lol!! Honestly Mark, I have spoken with a few people at Remington who seem to think that it's perfectly ok to lighten the bolt. Of course as soon as any of us builders take one apart and start cutting on it warranty is out the window anyways... I have not seen any catastrophes in relation to lightening the bolt on a vmax.. None whatsoever .. So I guess making some extra scratch lightening a bolt is ok since the majority of builders do it.... C'mon man ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APL-G35 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Okay mark I'll bite. You only have stated that it should not be done, but why should it not be done?. Catastrophic failure, reduced reliability, or just a slightly shorter lifespan on parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpipe95 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 From engineers at rem. Increased bolt velocity with heavy loads will cause premature reciever wear and possible reciever cracking. The bolt carrier weighs that much for a reason. Like I said above your biggest chance of damage in a versamax with a lightened bolt will come with loads like 2 3/4" prairie storm. Where all the ports are open and the ammo is hot as heck. I'm interested to know what rem engineers said it was ok and what their relationship to the versamax platform is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadleyOwens Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 So velocity and mass have no co relation? Maybe higher velocities with that much (factory) mass is the problem at hand. This is not a pissing contest guys..... I'm telling you that lightening a vmax bolt has only benefits and no drawbacks.... Find me a vmax with a receiver that has come apart with a lightened bolt an I'll stop lightening bolts .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpipe95 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) You are correct, it's not a pissing contest, but like usual in the shooting sports we have information from a factory vs aftermarket providers. I'll go with the factory testing including high speed video, stress analysis from the guy that saw the results first hand. And remember while a versa might share some m2 trigger parts it functions nothing like an m2 and out of the box has one of fastest bolt velocities on the market and can already run sub loads. Happy modding. Edited March 23, 2014 by bpipe95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadleyOwens Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Let's see the video ... And stress analysis... With a lightened bolt and without .. Thanks ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now