question about training with a .22

[44stevenson]

I have a M&P 9L that I shoot production with. Lately I have been training a bunch because I have a lot to work on. I've been thinking about using a .22 to train with but unfortunatley there is no 22 conversion for my gun. So what would be my best option on buying a .22 to train with. Should I go with a M&P 22 pistol (problem with it is the 4in barrel might have a different point of aim.) or should I buy another gun like a .22 target pistol?

[SlowShooter]

A .22 will always have a different point of aim, because ammo has a large range of velocities.

That's why the M&P22, as well as most other .22 pistols, have adjustable sights.

So, you can adjust it to match your 9L.

IF you want something that feels like your M&P nothing else is going to get you as close as a M&P22 will.

Edited October 12, 2012 by SlowShooter

[44stevenson]

So do you think it makes sense to train with a 22, or it just an invitation for bad habits?

[redial]

I run 5x as many rounds through my M&P 22 as my 40 Pro. Without the 22, my shooting would be cut terribly. The pathways in my brain-housing-group are in far better shape after 500 rounds of 22 than after a 100 round session with my 40.

My two cents

Mark

[SlowShooter]

So do you think it makes sense to train with a 22, or it just an invitation for bad habits?

Really curiously to know what "bad habits" one is going to pickup from a .22, because by the same argument then Dry-fire is bad for you also.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Should I go with a M&P 22 pistol or a .22 target pistol?

I tried a Buckmark - didn't like the feel or trigger, or lack of

recoil/blast (actually I loved the lack of blast, but it didn't

seem like I was practicing shooting a CF pistol with it - which

was the whole idea)>

IMHO, it was better to shoot 200 rounds 9mm/week than shooting

800 rounds of .22/week - just didn't seem helpful to me.

Apparently, lots of people disagree with me, and they're probably

much better shooters than I am.

[Chris iliff]

Well I don't totally disagree. Just a little.

The key to dryfire is honesty. You have to be honest and not just mash the trigger continually. That's why on a lot of drills you shouldn't even be pulling the trigger.

The key to .22 training is kinda the same, honesty. You get slide movement and that's great, but unlike dryfire, you do get some RECOIL management. IMHO this is GREAT. Unfortunately, the limited recoil can wreak havoc and breed bad habits.

The answer, once again, is honesty and something very simple. You must increase target difficulty. It is that simple.

When you are using your .22 you should makeI the targets very difficult. Think "index card" size or smaller. Think of running an El Prez. Now set it up and run it with index cards or "post it" notes in each A zone. Any drill you do include "post it" notes or "index cards" as your scoring zone.

This will force you on the sights and you then will not be able to "smash" the trigger twice and hit brown, which leads to all the trouble and is the drawback to dryfire and .22.

Once again....HONESTY. Force it on yourself.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Chris iliff

[meshugunner]

When I decided to learn how to shoot, I bought a Ruger MKIII and over the course of 4 months I fired 15000 rounds of Walmart bulk ammo through it. At that point I went out and bought a 686. The first time I took it down to the range was a terrifying experience. It felt like trying to hold on to an angry dog that wanted to jump around and bite me! Three cylinders of .38Sp +P and I went home beaten and exhausted. A couple of hundred rounds later when I realized it was mostly noise, the gun became a joy to shoot and I easily outshot most of the other people who showed up at my range. People are friendly down there. Many times I've been handed a gun to try out and immediately shot it better than the owner. I'm not saying I am a great marksman - any serious competitor is way, way better than me, but I learned a great deal through affordable, comfortable practice with .22lr. You wont learn much about recoil with a .22 but you sure can learn a lot about the trigger and sights.

[kevin c]

For me, .22 training and airsoft training get me a lot, but not all, of what I need to work on.

Accuracy - the .22 is quite good. Airsoft, not so much. So for groups, the conversion gets the nod.

Transitions on targets at normal distances, first shot on the draw, last shot leaving a position, SH, WH, shooting on the move, the AS and .22 keep me honest (yes, I should be able to call it in dry fire, but it's too easy for me to get lazy/sloppy). Either works, and the AS I can do at home.

Recoil management and reloads I do with the match gun. The AS and .22 mags have fragile feed lips that won't tolerate a missed reload or being dropped on a hard surface, and the mags don't weigh the same (nor do the guns). Not only the weight, but its distribution is different among the .22, AS and real thing, and there currently isn't a conversion that matches the slide length of G34/35's I use, so I always finish a practice with rounds/drills/practice runs with what I'll be shooting in the match the next day.

[partyboy424]

Apex tactical is supposed to be releasing a 22 conversion in the coming months. I also want to train with a 22 for the cost savings (and not having to slave over the reloading press) But I don't want to sacrifice a different grip, sights and trigger. I have the FSS trigger and the magwell fits in such a way that I can stack my hands under it to help control recoil. I don't want to get sloppy with my grip or trigger control using the M&P 22. Hopefully we hear something soon about the conversion.

[Nimitz]

You can also increase the distance and shoot regular targets. Before I started reloading I used a .22 conv for my G34. I found I was going much faster than I should in matches because I was shooting like I was practicing with a .22. Once I increased the distance in my training I had no choice but to slow down to get the hits. I'm now able to shoot just full powder 9mm loads so I don't use the .22 much. My training sessions are 3x/week and run about 200 rds per session. I find I learn much better and faster with numerous short intense sessions than fewer high rd count sessions. After about an hour of training and 200 rds I know I start to stop focusing so it's time to stop. I'd love to be able to shoot 500 rds in one session and be focused the entire time but it just doesn't happen.

[Alaskapopo]

Should I go with a M&P 22 pistol or a .22 target pistol?

I tried a Buckmark - didn't like the feel or trigger, or lack of

recoil/blast (actually I loved the lack of blast, but it didn't

seem like I was practicing shooting a CF pistol with it - which

was the whole idea)>

IMHO, it was better to shoot 200 rounds 9mm/week than shooting

800 rounds of .22/week - just didn't seem helpful to me.

Apparently, lots of people disagree with me, and they're probably

much better shooters than I am.

I think its best to do both. Shoot 200 rounds or the real stuff and 1000 of .22's. I do a lot of practice with .22's and it has helped me quite a bit this summer.

Pat

[MC1]

I have been running a plate rack with my Ruger .22. It has helped my accuracy a ton. I will certainly continue. 9mm would be better if I could afford it, but the savings is substantial.

[MC1]

I also use it for specific drills like practicing movement. My real focus is on the movement portion not the shot itself. Works great for that as well.

A friend of mine has the m&p 22. It functions well. He took a class and shot over 700 rounds. It had one malfunction.

[P-Zak]

I really like using my 22 conversion to enforce calling my shots with my sights and not taking the time to look at the targets. I know that sneaking a look before I leave a shooting position is a huge time waster, but I am guilty. With the 22, I cant see the holes. My SHO / WHO has also become much better since drilling with the 22. I will pick a day and use 22 only on that day, tougher targets, smaller A zones and increased distance to keep it interesting.