Shooter115 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yep, Not the best day for this 3 gunner, got my first stage DQ at a club match today. Last stage of the day for our squad. Kind of a unique stage with limited rounds allowed. Only 12 rounds allowed for each gun. 6 rounds in 2 pistol mags, 6 rounds in 2 rifle mags, shotgun tube loaded with 6 rounds with 6 more rounds staged on the table. All three guns staged loaded on a table with empty chambers, no ammo or mags on your person. This was a thinking stage as you could start and finish with any gun you wanted, but here's the kicker there were more targets than you had ammo forcing you to go for doubles with the shotgun and/or single A's with pistol and rifle. Actually kind of a neat stage idea trying to make the best out of a pretty short small bay. At this range the rules clearly state any abandoned weapon has to be completely empty. Started with the shotgun, shot 4 and loaded my last six off the table. Ran the shotgun empty (I thought) and proceeded to finish the stage with pistol and rifle. Time to clear guns and there's a fricken shall halfway out of the tube partially on the lifter with the bolt locked back. S.O.A.B!!! Mag spring must have gotten weak on my M2 and it crapped out on me with one shell to go on the last stage of the day. Not arguing against the stage DQ. The rules are the rules, just venting. Match was going good before this. Not quite the results I was looking for 2 weeks before hitting Blue Ridge!! I know this type of situation has bit a lot of shooters before me, just sucks to take a DQ due to a malfunction. It is what it is I guess. Off to tear apart an M2 and medicate my woes away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 At this range the rules clearly state any abandoned weapon has to be completely empty. Is that a local rule or a multi gun rule? If it's a local rule..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter115 Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 What??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Sanctioned matches don't typically observe local rules. At least not USPSA pistol matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter115 Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Gotcha. This was not a sanctioned match. Local outlaw 3 gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landshark45 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Sounds like a lot of guys would have ended up with the DQ... I def would have. Bolt locks back not many people will check it.... "The bolt locked back" No worries you have a great attitude about it. +1 to you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I always always look. It doesn't take any extra time to peak inside the chamber as you are dumping the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=VILLAMOR=- Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) This was a local outlaw match was put on by the Minnesota 3-Gun Group and hosted by a local gun range. The empty gun rule was a rule the host range wanted us to operate with. The stage in this topic was one I designed and the empty gun rule was also written in the stage description and procedure. And I was the one who had the displeasure of making the decision to issue a stage DQ. "The bolt locked back" does not always mean the gun is empty. We as 3-gunners often takes risk like this, thinking that the gun would be empty without confirming it just to save us a second in time. But we as 3-gunners also know and have seen malfunctions occur in so many wierd ways. And we all know that mulfunctions are not limited to just the guns, especially while under the pressure of a timer. Its up to each of us to weigh how much trust we put into our equipment. Chris's gun was exatly how he described it. The bolt was locked back and the live round was partially on the lifter and in the mag tube. In making my decision to issue the DQ, I took into consideration how visible the round was and whether the malfunction was easily resolved. In my opinion, they were both. With the bolt locked open, the round was clearly visible. When I had Chris clear the round from the shotgun, he did say that it was stuck in there, but he was able to remove it with his finger and without using any tools or a lot of physical labor. I am proud of Chris's attitude about the DQ. I've seen shooters throw a tantrum or just pack-up and leave right after being DQ'd. Chris stayed, not just to help his squad finish the day, but to also help tear down the stages and clean up the range after. A very good example of sportsmanship. To Chris: the match results are done but we are having a website issue. Out of 28 shooters in Tac-Optics, you still finished 10th with the stage DQ. If you would have not had that DQ, you would have finished 4th Place behind three veteran 3-gunners with major match experiences. For someone who just recently started shooting 3-gun and had only gone to 1 major match so far, you're doing very well. Just stay out of the Heavy Metal or I might have to DQ you for just showing up. Edited October 8, 2012 by -=VILLAMOR=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter115 Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the kind words of encouragement Jomar. And to be clear, I have no hard feelings towards anyone but myself for the DQ. I take full responsibility for it, as it's my gun, in my hands and I am the one responsible for making sure it is clear as per the clearly defined rules state. Nothing to be gained by being a poor sportsman or throwing a tantrum about it. All an attitude like that does is suck the fun out it for those around you. I had 3 brand new shooters on our squad Saturday and the last thing I would want to do is tarnish their first multi-gun experience with a display of poor sportsmanship. When it happened my round count seemed off, but it went to bolt lock and I did take a quick look in the chamber to make sure it was clear, but missed that bugger hanging out of the tube. I chalk it up as a good learning experience and hopefully I use what I learned to avoid it happening again. Good news is that it was just a club match with nothing more than bragging rights on the line as far as finish order goes. Culprit was definitely a weak mag spring. When I tore the gun down I only had about 9" of spring past the end of my 10 round tube. Another lesson learned. I am just thankful that it happened at a club match instead of in Kentucky a couple weeks from now. Though I did plan on replacing the spring after this match anyways. As far as switching over to heavy metal goes, you have nothing to worry about. Just don't take a stick after me at Blue Ridge(Inside joke to the MN crew). Chris Edited October 8, 2012 by Shooter115 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AggieMM Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Just remember, there are two types of shooters: Those that HAVE been DQ'd Those that WILL be DQ'd Welcome to the club, have a seat, and I'll get the ice cream..... Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Wow, you handled that DQ in a respectable manner brother. It sucks but glad you shared it with us. I have had dealings with Jomar too and he is an awesome guy, I am sure he was fair and unbiased, as an RO should be. I was at a match last month and as I dumped my M2, I cycled it a few times, checked the chamber real quick then dropped it. When we came back to clear it, there was still a round in the mag tube. I got a procedural so I was lucky. The rules at that match state if you go forward of a loaded firearm, that would be a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Fully unloaded gun requirement = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Payne Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I think Jomar is mean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=VILLAMOR=- Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I think Jomar is mean! Are you still mad about: a.) That I whacked you with a twig? b.) That we stuffed your bags and rifles cases with twigs? (Did you find them all yet by the way?) c.) That I made a prop to commemorate the event and everyone got to re-enact it? Or d.) All of the above? You know that twig story will never get old, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter115 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 I think Jomar is mean! Are you still mad about: a.) That I whacked you with a twig? b.) That we stuffed your bags and rifles cases with twigs? (Did you find them all yet by the way?) c.) That I made a prop to commemorate the event and everyone got to re-enact it? Or d.) All of the above? You know that twig story will never get old, right? This could have been the first ever poll in the "Hell, I was there" topic. While I am sorry that there was an actual injury involved (not due to the twig whacking), but the Midwest Championship twig incident will live in infamy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I was at the SMM match a while ago and the owner of a very large well known rifle manufacture DQ'ed on the last stage of the last day b/c they forgot to abandon their shotgun properly (could either be completely empty or safety on). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwfuhrman Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I would have DQ'd simply for the empty gun. INMG Rules are like the other rules, Either Safety On or Completely empty. I'm in the habit of if there is a safety and I'm grounding a gun or moving with it, the safety goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter115 Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 I would have DQ'd simply for the empty gun. INMG Rules are like the other rules, Either Safety On or Completely empty. I'm in the habit of if there is a safety and I'm grounding a gun or moving with it, the safety goes on. Not sure I follow you Jw. At this match the safety means nothing as far as grounging the gun goes, the gun had to be completely empty, safety on or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urikagold Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I understand the rule and the need to have such a rule. I have seen a few people bit by it. That being said, if the shell has fired and the bolt is locked back the gun is technically safe right? I do however always, always check. The extra half second that it takes me probably won't mean much over the course of a match, but it matters a lot if I don't check and get dq'ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLTD Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Definite eye-roll on the empty gun rule; especially if you are not going to move in front(down range) of if later in the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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